GH5 Big Firmware Updates Coming November 19, 2019
- Thread starter TheDingo
- Start date
Nice update for the G9 and S1....
For the GH5, not so much. Hard to get too excited when the main upgrade is being able to tell the auto focus not to focus on the fence you're trying to shoot through. Weird that the animal auto focus option is not available for the GH5 (obviously not a big deal, but still weird).
But hey, I guess it means Panny hasn't completely abandoned the MFT format. Yet.
For the GH5, not so much. Hard to get too excited when the main upgrade is being able to tell the auto focus not to focus on the fence you're trying to shoot through. Weird that the animal auto focus option is not available for the GH5 (obviously not a big deal, but still weird).
But hey, I guess it means Panny hasn't completely abandoned the MFT format. Yet.
The Oly EM1 MII just had a killer upgrade, breathing new life into the camera. It's a move that simultaneously makes long term users happy, while maybe making people looking at picking up a 2nd high end MFT camera take a peek at it. Just a solid business move all around.
Seems unlikely that it's technically impossible for the animal focus upgrade to work on the GH5 - I think Dingo is right about Panny trying to protect other cameras (although it's such a weak feature that I suppose it could be a technical issue).
Far as the GH6 goes, unless it's a major step forward - like better colors, better dynamic range, better in low light - it's hard to see a huge number of GH5 users moving over to it, regardless of the camera getting better firmware....
Especially when Panny is devoting so much time trying to get its users to buy their full frame line-up. You may simply see them abandon the GH series of cameras altogether, and simply work on the G line-up. It's cheaper to produce and would allow them to say "See, we didn't give up on the MFT format."
Not predicting that mind you, but I think it's a possibility.
Seems unlikely that it's technically impossible for the animal focus upgrade to work on the GH5 - I think Dingo is right about Panny trying to protect other cameras (although it's such a weak feature that I suppose it could be a technical issue).
Far as the GH6 goes, unless it's a major step forward - like better colors, better dynamic range, better in low light - it's hard to see a huge number of GH5 users moving over to it, regardless of the camera getting better firmware....
Especially when Panny is devoting so much time trying to get its users to buy their full frame line-up. You may simply see them abandon the GH series of cameras altogether, and simply work on the G line-up. It's cheaper to produce and would allow them to say "See, we didn't give up on the MFT format."
Not predicting that mind you, but I think it's a possibility.
Cary Knoop
Veteran
Bassman2003
Veteran
I do not get the abandon MFT concerns. If they let go of MFT, they are letting go of a huge portion of the imaging presence. FF cameras are big and for a certain segment of the camera market. Not everybody wants to spend for the body & lenses either. MFT is a great middle ground that happens to provide top notch video as well. They have a good thing going with folks here and the GH series. Keep improving and I am a buyer every time.
Unlike Canon, Panasonic has a chance of people actually buying more than one of their models to compliment each other. All with the same capabilities. The odds of me buying the S1H and a GH6 are quite good. A shining example of why fake market segmentation is not effective.
Unlike Canon, Panasonic has a chance of people actually buying more than one of their models to compliment each other. All with the same capabilities. The odds of me buying the S1H and a GH6 are quite good. A shining example of why fake market segmentation is not effective.
The two main MFT manufacturers - Olympus & Panasonic - are bleeding money in their camera divisions.
In an interview today, Olympus would not deny the possibility of selling off their consumer imagining division. Obviously Panasonic has dumped a huge amount of resources into their full frame line-up, and have nowhere near the market presence like Canon does.
Technically, there doesn't seem like there's a whole lot more either can do in terms of sensor dynamic range and sensitivity. A 1 stop improvement over the GH5s sensor is perhaps the best that's currently possible, but even that is just a guess - there's been no announcement of such. The market seems to want higher pixel counts, yet that plays against micro four thirds, where having fewer, larger, photosites makes more sense.
Given the popularity of full frame & S35 sensors, the current financial situation(s) of the 2 companies, the industry wide downturn in all camera sales, and the already nearly maxed out tech, it's arguably unreasonable to expect either company to dump a whole of resources in developing a "mega" micro four thirds sensor or camera.
It already seems apparent that neither company will extend themselves in the format. The new Olympus EM5 MIII uses the same sensor as the mark II, and uses cheaper materials in the body. This January will mark 3 years since the Panasonic GH5 and Oly EM1 mark II were announced. Since then, neither has released - or announced - a superior MFT camera. The closet camera is the G9, a camera which itself is nearly 2 years old.
Indeed, the only real release of note from either company is Panasonic's 10-25mm f 1.7, which was likely in development years ago, and the Oly E-M1X... which does not have superior video quality then the EM1 MII (and arguably worse then the GH5). Both products are massively expensive and beyond most casual users of the format.
So it's not a great leap to suggest that one, or both, companies abandon the format.
https://www.43rumors.com/official-o...ility-and-efficiency-in-the-imaging-business/
Bassman2003
Veteran
I bet there will be a GH6. The video community would be thrilled with a GH6 that has one stop DR over the GH5s along with IBIS and equal sensitivity. No need to reinvent the wheel, just keep the body the same and update the sensor. No way is Panasonic going to lay the entire company in the hands of FF. They are number 4 with Sigma and Leica making bodies as well. It would make more sense to do a full exit from making cameras in general than give up the M4/3rds infrastructure they have built up.
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Cary Knoop
Veteran
Given how poorly received the Olympus E-M1x camera was ( deservedly so in my book because Olympus could not deliver the tech they had been promising ), I could see Olympus selling off their consumer camera division if they could get a fair price.
I think the situation is completely different with Panasonic. Panasonic has the tech and they've been delivering it in MFT format for many years now. After 2.5 years the GH5 has been on the market, there are still no challengers that can do what this "old" GH5 camera can do: A weatherproof camera that can shoot 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 with unlimited recording time combined with state-of-the-art IBIS that can greatly stabilize hand-held shots.
Given that half of the performance of any camera made today is tied directly to it's processing power, I can see Panasonic producing a GH6 camera in 2020 that will incorporate the advancements that have happened over the past 3 years. There's a heck of a lot more to a camera than simply it's sensor. ( otherwise Sony mirrorless would dominate in all categories including video, so 2.5 YEARS in they still have NOT caught up to what the GH5 can do )
To all the MFT naysayers, I think you suffer from a deficit of imagination if you think this is the end of the line for the MFT format. ( and we haven't even begun to talk about what the Z Cam E2 currently brings to the MFT table )
Cary Knoop
Veteran
Wake me up when Z Cam provides a camera with a good EVF and IBIS.
Wake me up when Z Cam provides a camera with a good EVF and IBIS.
Ha! IBIS is a non-starter, same goes for the EVF, but you can use a standard USB C to iPhone lightning cable to turn your iPhone into a high resolution 6 inch monitor for any of the Z Cam models. It's pretty impressive if you've got one of the newer iPhones. ( it's supposed to work with Android phones too )
Don't get me wrong Dingo, I agree - there are plenty of technical reasons why MFT cameras could get better; why they could/should making them. I love the format. Use it every day. The GH5 was a truly revolutionary camera, and I want all the small improvements seen in the past 3 years made available in a GH6 plus more....
But the biggest reason to make these cameras from a corporate point of view - profit - simply is not there.
So much so that one of the co-creators of the format would not deny the possibility of selling off their entire consumer camera division, while the other co-creator has spent the last 3 years preparing, marketing, and releasing a full frame camera. In that 3 years, there's been only a few MFT camera releases/advances, and none of them major. Panasonic could have put a MFT sensor into the EVA-1, but didn't. Olympus could have put a new sensor into the EM1X or EM5 MIII, but didn't.
That's a stunning reversal for the 2 companies responsible for the format. No other large manufacturer is going to make MFT cameras, and the biggest of all - Sony - has plenty of reasons to not advance sensor tech for the format. If I remember correctly, the GH5s' sensor was one designed for security cameras, not specifically for SLRs....
While there could be a GH6 coming, it will likely be a minor step forward as increasing processing power will not give these sensors any advantage in dynamic range or sensitivity. 6 or 8K resolution will not save the format as a) I don't believe there's any demand for it and b) it would further reduce dynamic range. And I think both companies understand that. Indeed, that's likely one of the reasons why Panasonic started moving into full frame cameras.
Which brings this back to the undeniable fact that all camera format sales are down - way down - and that the MFT format is the weakest of the bunch. There may be emotional and artistic reasons for Panasonic and Olympus to keep making new cameras, but from a financial perspective those reasons are dwindling, if not totally gone.
So it's not a lack of imagination to predict a continued slow-down of MFT releases with ever smaller technical advances and fewer releases, as that's already happened. The economic reality for these companies is not going away, and it's not likely to change. Minor firmware upgrades can't stem the tide, nor will camera releases that feature existing sensor tech.
Here's to hoping I'm wrong.
But the biggest reason to make these cameras from a corporate point of view - profit - simply is not there.
So much so that one of the co-creators of the format would not deny the possibility of selling off their entire consumer camera division, while the other co-creator has spent the last 3 years preparing, marketing, and releasing a full frame camera. In that 3 years, there's been only a few MFT camera releases/advances, and none of them major. Panasonic could have put a MFT sensor into the EVA-1, but didn't. Olympus could have put a new sensor into the EM1X or EM5 MIII, but didn't.
That's a stunning reversal for the 2 companies responsible for the format. No other large manufacturer is going to make MFT cameras, and the biggest of all - Sony - has plenty of reasons to not advance sensor tech for the format. If I remember correctly, the GH5s' sensor was one designed for security cameras, not specifically for SLRs....
While there could be a GH6 coming, it will likely be a minor step forward as increasing processing power will not give these sensors any advantage in dynamic range or sensitivity. 6 or 8K resolution will not save the format as a) I don't believe there's any demand for it and b) it would further reduce dynamic range. And I think both companies understand that. Indeed, that's likely one of the reasons why Panasonic started moving into full frame cameras.
Which brings this back to the undeniable fact that all camera format sales are down - way down - and that the MFT format is the weakest of the bunch. There may be emotional and artistic reasons for Panasonic and Olympus to keep making new cameras, but from a financial perspective those reasons are dwindling, if not totally gone.
So it's not a lack of imagination to predict a continued slow-down of MFT releases with ever smaller technical advances and fewer releases, as that's already happened. The economic reality for these companies is not going away, and it's not likely to change. Minor firmware upgrades can't stem the tide, nor will camera releases that feature existing sensor tech.
Here's to hoping I'm wrong.
I am sure there are lots of people like me that shoot everything on a tripod so have no real use for IBS or EVF. I have both GH5 and GH5S and if the GH5S had come out first I would have two of them rather than one of each. Sole reason for me is shooting UHD 60P if I want to hand hold for travel or family shoots I use my AX53 much better for that task and my AX100 would be the next choice. The GH5 and GH5S are a substitute for me getting much more expensive cameras like FS7/ 9 or EVA 1. I cannot justify any of those for what I do and the GH5's come really close to what I could achieve with my skill level with any of those other cameras. As far as improvements that I would like they are very small like having all parameters visible all the time on the LCD like most camcorders whatever mode the camera is set to with indication showing if the parameter is in auto or manual. Things like false colour etc would also be nice to access while recording. Since I shoot in manual focus all the time too autofocus performance for me is also not important. Touch focus is but not continuous. Since I shoot to crop and zoom etc to a HD timeline the next value to me would be 8K so that from a single fixed location I would have more opportunity in editing. So you can see my next camera will likely be 8K . So Z Cam may be interesting.
I don't think profit is any better for the FF cameras because the competition is fierce ( Panasonic faces few real competitors with MFT format ), so it's a race to the bottom to see who can deliver the most tech for the smallest price.
Panasonic getting into FF has been planned for more than 6 years, and I do think it's a format that they should support ALONG with their MFT cameras. I have no plans to drop MFT any time soon because right now there's nothing this compact that can deliver the same results, but I could see adding a FF camera for projects where FF might be a better fit. ( i.e. low-light and higher IQ projects )
Six years preparing, and I don't believe they ever thought of replacing MFT with FF cameras because a big slice of the market want a high performance compact camera.
Which is a smart move because the cine camera market is not asking for a MFT cine camera. ( though we pretty much have that now with the Z Cam E2 )
Olympus failed with the E-M1X camera. On paper it sounded like it was going to give Panasonic a real run for their money, but the camera they ended up delivering was pretty sad. It really felt like Olympus was using recycled tech in the E-M1X, when many people including myself were expecting something state-of-the-art. ( the E-M1X ended up being the Olympus "Edsel" )
Completely disagree with you when it comes to Panasonic. I don't think Panasonic is going anywhere, and their S1 cameras are NOT replacing their MFT cameras. I think this whole FF replacement idea is just bonkers. ( Tony Northrup has never been much of a Nostradamus in the camera world )
I don't buy this for a second. The S1 cameras are Panasonic's premium line, but they will never replace their MFT products, and it's simply foolish to believe so.
All of my friends and relatives use their mobile phones and their tablets for the photographs they take. Most of them own Canon or Nikon DSLR cameras that they haven't touched in 5 years. The consumer DSLR market will never come back. It's gone for good.
I think the market is largely slowing down because what we have now is more than good enough. I could see myself continuing to shoot corporate video projects with my GH5 cameras for the next 3+ years if nothing better comes along, and I don't think my work will suffer because of this. I am definitely NOT replacing my MFT gear with FF gear, but I could see myself adding a S1 camera to expand my shooting options.
Again, I really think the whole "doom and gloom" predictions for the MFT market are wildly out of place. MFT is not going anywhere, and its not being replaced by FF gear. Sure the market is slowing down, but that's happening for ALL cameras that aren't mobile phones or tablets.
Cary Knoop
Veteran
Using an 8K camera to produce HD?
That's like driving a sports car on the highway at 45Mph.
