best new HD cam for feature?

abalex said:
I would shoot on film my man but i'm talking digital now, these things are like toys, one is better than the other but..... which one would you use?
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RED Epic all the way. I may never get a chance to own such a fine piece of technology and that just makes me sad.
 
vcassel said:
RED Epic all the way. I may never get a chance to own such a fine piece of technology and that just makes me sad.
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the great thing about technology is that it's always improving and getting cheaper. who knows what will be available in 10 years.
 
You mean $300K for the whole feature, or just for the gear? If for the gear, that's one thing, but if that's for the whole feature, personally I wouldn't even come close to RED in any form. $300K may seem a lot of money, but it's not, for a feature. Why spend $10K on a camera, when you can spend $5K? It depends on the requirements of your feature, but frankly, I don't see why you'd shoot on an Alexa/RED/ExpensiveCamera compared to a AF100 - most of the time, unless there are special circumstances, the audience won't be able to tell the difference. So unless you're shooting in super low light or some other requirement that demands you use a more expensive camera, I'd just go with the AF100 and put the price differential into the rest of the budget. Even $1000 makes a difference on a $300K budget. The AF100 will be more than enough 99% of the time from the audience point of view.
 
300K for a feature?

Well since we all know the camera is just one part of the camera "package" (monitors, tripods, lenses, follow focus, matte box, filters..etc)
Assuming I don't already own all of that, I would 100% be renting rather than buying.

I'd love to say Alexa but if the budget was only 300K I would definitely be leaning towards a current RED/MX camera and support.
An Epic is going to bring a premium for rentals as is the Alexa. RED cameras are so saturated in the market place these days that you can get a VERY good deal
on weekly/monthly rentals.
 
Sony F3 to a KiPro, or similar recorder, without a doubt. The 7D and 5D (the same basically) are just toys despite the marketing and what you hear. Their time has already come and gone. You have less than HD resolution and NO COLOR information to grade later. You also have severe motion issues with any DSLR. You can not color grade it and you are very, very limited in your creativity when shooting with toys like that. There is a reason the F3 is being made. Save the toys for the $15k films out there and use real cameras for anything else. $300k would let you go S16mm or even 35mm which always wins, well, most of the time. If I had the budget and needed it to be digital for some reason I'd rent an Arri Alexa which is the top camera out there for now. I'd put the F35 next and maybe the F3 after that.

By the way, the Epic is way, way over hyped. It looks exactly the same as their other cameras. The extra resolution is a gimmick, sorry to say, and the range isn't near as good as an Alexa. I know that will cause some fans to scream but its true.
 
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Cinesin said:
The 7D and 5D (the same basically) are just toys despite the marketing and what you hear. Their time has already come and gone.

You can not color grade it and you are very, very limited in your creativity when shooting with toys like that.

Save the toys for the $15k films out there and use real cameras for anything else.
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So these people using these toys, they are like children?
 
300k and shooting on 7d is kinda i dont know ,very weird.I have DSLR ,im not against but its just wrong if you want picture without any problems and with high quality.
I think you should take advice from people who actually worked on or own the gear they recommend.I have DSLR but with such budget i dont recommend it.There is Arri Alexa,RED ,panasonic AF cams and some sony's.
Maybe question really is whats the cheapest HD cam with big sensor for a feature ?
 
Yeah, DSLR'S are fine for shorts, but anything more than that, you would drive yourself crazy. I would go old school before a dslr and use a camcorder dof adapter, at least your able to have a few pro features your gonna need along the way. But with 300k, I would definetly use at least an f3. You could buy an f3, for the money you would spend on red. And to be honest, thats about all you need for 300k. Your most likely not going to do a film out with that budget, so I would keep it digital.
 
The problems and limitations of shooting with a DSLR for a feature will cost you more time and money than renting a decent camera. Red or Alexa though the RED would be my first choice, especially if you were going for 2.40:1 scope format. Either one is far ahead of a DSLR on image quality, production efficiency, and creative flexibility in post.
 
Cinesin said:
Sony F3 to a KiPro, or similar recorder, without a doubt. The 7D and 5D (the same basically) are just toys despite the marketing and what you hear. Their time has already come and gone. You have less than HD resolution and NO COLOR information to grade later. You also have severe motion issues with any DSLR. You can not color grade it and you are very, very limited in your creativity when shooting with toys like that. There is a reason the F3 is being made. Save the toys for the $15k films out there and use real cameras for anything else. $300k would let you go S16mm or even 35mm which always wins, well, most of the time. If I had the budget and needed it to be digital for some reason I'd rent an Arri Alexa which is the top camera out there for now. I'd put the F35 next and maybe the F3 after that.

By the way, the Epic is way, way over hyped. It looks exactly the same as their other cameras. The extra resolution is a gimmick, sorry to say, and the range isn't near as good as an Alexa. I know that will cause some fans to scream but its true.
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Sorry, they are not toys they are tools, and they work well in certain circumstances. I'm not saying I would use them as a primary camera on a $300k feature, but if I wanted someone to shoot some B-cam stuff and the like, I would certainly utilize them. Their time is still here and people are very much still using them on smaller budgets. It will be a long time before they disappear because they have a cost point that lowers the entry point for beginners.

Also, I do believe my 7D shoots in color, but if yours doesn't, you might want to return it. Yes, you need to get closer in camera to what you want, but 4:2:0 is 4:2:0 and many cameras also have that limitation without using external recorders. We had no problem grading the color on our miniseries and I'll even post a link to our 3rd part shot in fall which I think has AMAZING colors in it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfXY4-iG3_E

And I'm sorry to say, I've worked with Red One footage and the extra resolution is NOT a gimmick. The detail is absolutely amazing and looks beautiful. I'm not saying it is everything, there are certainly more parts of the equation, but it's about freedom and workflow and Red has done a very cool think with the Red Raw that gives people a lot of freedom with what they shoot. I also think the Alexa looks beautiful as well, but for me I am not a fan of the size of the camera. I like the Epic form factor much more. The F3 looks fantastic, but it would be my third choice if I could use Epic or Alexa.

And for $300k I would NOT go film, at all. I budgeted a film recently with both film and digital, and going digital freed up quite a bit of money for talent because of the cost of the film, the processing, the scanning. I was amazed at how much of a difference it was. Not to mention, we'd need to hire someone who shoots film since our whole crew shoots digital. 35mm is not going to make a feature any better if the talent and support equipment is not already there to make it happen. It's just wasting money at this price point.

Also, I've seen many tests with the Alexa and the Epic, and while the dynamic range is better on the Alexa, I'd say a half stop to a stop is not a huge difference. I'd say they are near as good. I'd also say that Red Raw support in almost all the NLE and the Red Rocket accelerator capability puts Red's raw capability ahead of Alexa's which really hasn't gained traction yet (though to be fair, it is brand new).

Like others have said, it depends what $300k means. If that is the budget for just the camera, does that include renting lens (or buying lenses). Does that include ever aspect of doing the film? It's too open ended of a question.
 
I would use RED ONE or RED ONE MX, basically the Epic is not available right now .... you can only buy an Epic if they "allow" you to buy an Epic M. Anyone, (with the Actors, Script and skill set) can make a "rocking" movie with a RED ONE and $250, heck all you need is a RED ONE and $25K . Basically if you get Actors and Locations and crew etc. for free. It can be done for "free". Once you have the RED ONE and sound and light equip .... there is no excuse .... get excellent "free" actors and crew and you are on your way. To cut costs even more ... go the AF-100 route. But the difference, if the FCP editors know what they are doing, between AF-100 and RED ONE is noticeable ... of course, the Acting and Script can eliminate this difference.
 
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