best new HD cam for feature?

TimurCivan said:
Ok lets assume $300,000.00 is total production budget. No post. Average 90 page script, to be done with care and quality. Simple drama, minimal effects shots. Average shoot time 25-27 days. ( 4 weeks @ 6 day weeks, 24 days; with three budgeted pick up days; now 27 days)

300,000 / 27 = 11,111 a day.

OK. So, lets assume the rental house or DP is giving you 3 day weeks on camera rental. REDMX = $1500 w/ RPP. @ 3 day weeks. Camera department is coming in at about $4500 a week, @ 4 weeks + 3 days for pickups, $22,500 for the whole shoot. So lets break it down as a "daily rate".... $22.500 / 27 days = $833

So out of our 11,111 a day $833 is gone. we are left with $10,278.

Grip and electric: Lets say again three day weeks, a decent package: $1500 a week.broken down as a day rate: $223 a day.

We are left with: $10,056 a day.

Craft services: at least enough for 25 people depending on cast, and grips usually eat for two. $300 a day + $100 for water, snacks etc and they arent eating great... just basic Italian food lunches and dunking donuts breakfasts.

left with $9656

Administrative costs over all: permits, Insurance, vehicles, deposits, expendables, location fees, wardrobe, art materials, Media storage, backups, $25,000 for the whole month. per day: $926

left with: $8730

Talent: $1500 a day average 3-7 actors vary pay scales.

left with $7230

So on set we need every day:

Director, Producer, Line producer, Script supervisor, AD, DP, 1st AC, 2nd AC, DIT, Gaffer, Best boy, Key Grip, Grip, Grip, Hair/make up, wardrobe, Art director, Art Hand, PA, PA, PA .
Thats 21 people, before talent. These are BASIC people. BASIC. You need all of them to make a film.

Averaged.... this comes out to $344 per person. but thats unrealistic. The Director and DP are getting more than the PA's. So let say PA's get $150 a day, and the Director gets $700 a day, department keys get about $500 a day, and everyone else get about $250.

So yes, a RED can work. :)

It may bite you in post, if you arent fully equipped to handle a 90+ min film @ 4k.

If I were producing/Directing or shootign a 300k feature, Id go F3 w/ Slog and a Ki Pro. quick to edit, easy to grade, and cheaper each day, meaning crew can eat better and be more efficient and less grumpy. In the low budget film world, keeping the crew happy is a major thing. the $200 a day yo usave can buy better lunches. :)
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You forgot sound mixer, boom operator and sound utility. You can get away without sound utility, but sound adds at least two more people and skimping on production sound will probably cost you more in the end.
 
All true, with $300k you arguably should be filling those roles, and paying and feeding people well. But I just don't believe you must, that's all. Many successful films have been shot with crews smaller than that.
 
well thats a good enough reason right there...... whole another department, w/ equipment and mouths to feed and transport. That couple hundred bucks a day becomes important.
 
anyone notice the OP checked out after page 2 where REAL "feature" budgets started being discussed?
just another symptom of the DSLR "revolution". anyone with $2000 to spend suddenly thinks theyre a DP and going to make the next pulp fiction.
then equally quickly, realize there is much more to it.

DSLRs are rapidly turning me into a very jaded person...
 
The OP in this case is definitely not a child of the 'DSLR revolution.'
Abalex has been here longer than myself and many others.
He's entered DVXfest in the past and proven that he has the skills to get a solid story on the screen.
As to why he checked out of this thread, I have no idea - maybe he was just interested in sparking the discussion.

Point is - let's not let the 'i hate DSLRs' bandwagon take down a community member with it.
Feel free to debate and dismiss the gear all you want - but let's not make assumptions about members and their experience or intent.

Thanks.
 
Abalex won a DVXFest yeas ago, with "No Middle Ground". Guy makes great footage and has been working as a filmmaker for years.
 
I know abalex has been around for quite some time and is great at what he does. I think to get such great feedback on a topic and check out early in the thread is what may have members confused and assuming. Doesn't make the statement, "anyone with $2000 to spend suddenly thinks they're a DP" any less true because of DSLRs however.

For what its worth, I do hope abalex has a $300k budget and blows us away with whatever he shoots (regardless of hypothetical thread).

Kegan
 
OldCorpse said:
You mean $300K for the whole feature, or just for the gear? If for the gear, that's one thing, but if that's for the whole feature, personally I wouldn't even come close to RED in any form. $300K may seem a lot of money, but it's not, for a feature. Why spend $10K on a camera, when you can spend $5K? It depends on the requirements of your feature, but frankly, I don't see why you'd shoot on an Alexa/RED/ExpensiveCamera compared to a AF100 - most of the time, unless there are special circumstances, the audience won't be able to tell the difference. So unless you're shooting in super low light or some other requirement that demands you use a more expensive camera, I'd just go with the AF100 and put the price differential into the rest of the budget. Even $1000 makes a difference on a $300K budget. The AF100 will be more than enough 99% of the time from the audience point of view.
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Yep, what he said. I tell people this all the time.

-Nate
 
wgzn said:
anyone notice the OP checked out after page 2 where REAL "feature" budgets started being discussed?
just another symptom of the DSLR "revolution". anyone with $2000 to spend suddenly thinks theyre a DP and going to make the next pulp fiction.
then equally quickly, realize there is much more to it.

DSLRs are rapidly turning me into a very jaded person...
Click to expand...

Believe me, DSLR's have never been the problem, people's mentalities are. One day cameras like the Red will be cheap and you'll still have people saying buy the new camera that does 10k res. Honestly, no matter what you shoot on you'll need to know the process. And just for the record $300,000 is at the low end of a grade B movie budget. The high end could still be 1 - 5 million with a former A-lister like Van Damme, Snipes or Seagal so just so you can have some perspective on B budgets.The low end of the spectrum is your 20k - $50k movies and to get any real DTV distribution that will make money back you need at least one or two known actors (usually people from TV) and that's 3 to 10k of your budget right there depending on whether their agent wants to pay hardball or not.

-Nate
 
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