best audio for a nobody?

T

thegoldfi

Active member
so i have ordered a 7d. i am not intending to use it for commercial purposes, but i do plan on making a few videos that will be distributed (online or DVDs). first, i plan on making a video of my brothers wedding, using the 7d and an hv20. my concept for it is almost like a documentary, where i plan on interviewing my brother, his future wife, and other family members. of course, the typical wedding shots would be incorporated. the other planned video is a BMX video. i am not sure if there would be any interview aspects to it, but you never know.

initially, i will have only a 50 1.8 and some older nikon glass (24 2.8, mainly). although, i am not really concerned about lenses right now.

when it comes to audio, though, i am really confused. i have done a bit of searching on rode videomics, etc. but i am not convinced. i went to a local guitar shop today and they recommended an h2 or h4n. i am sort of understanding how one would get the two to work together, but i am wondering if its going to be too much of a nightmare.

so basically, i have two questions:
1) is the learning curve going to be too great, such that the increased value in learning to use the h4n (or h2) is not worthwhile? also, is it going to be a pain having all the extra gear?
2) is sinking going to be a pain? (i don't want to spend extra money on software, unfortunately.)

i should also mention that i do have "dreams" or aspirations of making short documentaries at some point, but those are simply that at this point. would having the right gear make me more inclined to follow through?
 
I have an h4n, and i love it. Sound is pretty decent in a pinch, if you need it and comes with a wind sock. One cool thing is you can expand it as you grow with xlr mics and it even has phantom power so you can use those to.

I just did an add for my work (thats not my job at all, just volunteered) and used my h4n with a friends borrowed mic.

jon
 
An external audio device like that is definitely your best bet for capturing the best audio. Although there are ways to get decent audio into the 7D, it won't compare to having an H4N, DR-100 or something similar.
There's some great software out there for syncing this external audio in post production. Pluraleyez by Singular Software is one we had some great success with (using two 5D Markii cameras and Wireless Lav kits). It uses the audio track to sync multiple signals, so make sure you do a clap at the beginning and end to help it have a reference point.
You can also run the H4N directly into the camera via a padded line to mic cable.
Lastly, Juicedlink has made a little device to make it simpler to get decent audio directly into the camera. Using one of their pre-amps and the DN-101, you can have headphone out, VU meters and AGC defeat without using an external device.
Just some things to consider.
 
ok, so if i were to use an h4n, for example, would the camera and recorder record separately? or is there a way to use the h4n as a microphone for the camera, and also use the onboard h4n microphone (e.g. record those two as separate tracks)? if that is done, can i still use the headphone jack?
 
Using the H4N, if you connect it to the 7D via the pad cable (in my previous post), it will record to the H4N itself and as a mic-in signal to the 7D. (You need the pad cable however, as the H4N only has line-level out, and this would be too much for the 7D's mic input)
Using the H4N this way, you could use the onboard mics, but I'd recommend making use of the XLR in and some higher quality microphones. A recording device like this can get some sweet sound, but mics are a big part of it.
 
yeah, as long as you use a slate to mark the sound, lining the clips up only takes about 15-20 seconds each most times.

just be sure to get a good workflow down for keeping track of which sound clips go to which video clips. From what ive heard if you plug the h4n into the 7D, the gain control will wreak havoc on your sound anyway.

AND further more, its best to have your sound recorder just out of frame from your subject, anyway.
 
jonE5 said:
From what ive heard if you plug the h4n into the 7D, the gain control will wreak havoc on your sound anyway.
Click to expand...

Exactly why I keep stressing the padded line-to-mic cable. If you have this, the H4N or any other recorder will not wreak havoc on the 7D. However, you still have AGC to worry about unless you're using the DN-101, but if you're recording to the H4N then you don't have to worry about getting great audio anyhow.
 
Keep them separate (cam and H4), to allign the audio in the editing sw is a piece of cake (when you get used to) but anyway it's not a hard job at all. I did myself as a total novice and it has been working ok every time. Just get a decent XLR mic that you plug into the H4 and then with the auio you are ok :)
 
CiPO said:
Keep them separate (cam and H4), to allign the audio in the editing sw is a piece of cake (when you get used to) but anyway it's not a hard job at all. I did myself as a total novice and it has been working ok every time. Just get a decent XLR mic that you plug into the H4 and then with the auio you are ok :)
Click to expand...

Agreed. And Pluraleyez definitely helps make this a very easy task.
 
would the H2 be a good option, or is it not worth my while? its about $100 difference.

i also want to get an LCDVF, so my extra expenses keep going up and up...
 
thegoldfi said:
...
2) is sinking going to be a pain? ...
Click to expand...

No, I think you'll head to the bottom of the lake just nicely!

If you record in the kitchen would that make matching the sound to the visuals a kitchen sync?

(Cheezy burlesque rim shot) Bada bing bada boom...
 
alright, so i decided i should order something today.

which recorder should i get? i had previously looked at the h4n, and would still consider that, but its kind of at the higher end of my budget.

what are some cheaper alternatives? tascam dr1? can i still use a redhead with that?
 
i am terrible at making my own decisions. should i get:

1) h4n
2) tascam dr-100
3) rode videomic
4) other

thanks.
 
AS I understand it is a budget issue and you are trying to get out the most with the minimum money. We are talking about production value :)
The H2 (if I am not mistaken) doesn't have an XLR input and probably it is not better then the audio input you have already on the 7D. I have a H4 which I love and would be probably your best option (cheaper then the new H4n). You can use some nice external XLR mic with it and you will get an amazing audio (extra production value).
I would say get a used H4 from Ebay, you will love it ;)
The rest of the production value will lay in your hands :)

my2eurocents
 
I have an H2 and use it with the 7d, works perfectly, if you are going to be using lav mics or dont need XLR mics, go with the H2, I always shoot with a Lav on the talent and a Rode videomic on top of the 7d for sync purposes and the sound is great when recording to the H2, just make sure you use the WAV 16 bit 48 khz setting

thegoldfi said:
so final question: is the h2 worth buying? or just skip it for an h4n?
Click to expand...
 
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