FS5: Best all around lens for run and gun

N

Newsguy

Well-known member
I’ve seen different threads like this, but the latest one I read was quite a while ago so I wanted to know if there were any updated impressions on workhorse lenses. I’m coming directly from a bait and switch on eBay where the seller had a deal in the 18-110 Sony, took my money, and is now saying the lens is sold out and if I want a different one. I’m slowly realizing I’m not going to find a good deal on this lens anytime soon. I currently have a Canon 24-70 and the 70-200. These have their uses, but for say a standing 2 person interview (think post game NBA/NFL) where there’s live zooming from 2 shot to single, I am really looking for something parfocal.

The lenses I have seen mentioned in some threads are:

Canon 24-105: many people’s workhorse, but gets a lot of negative criticism for it’s soft image.

Sigma 24-105: lots of people like this one, but it’s not parfocal

Fuji 18-55: I’ve actually rented this one and the telephoto and I absolutely love them. Unfortunately buying it is out of my budget.

Sony 18-105: I actually opted not to get this as the kit lens for my fs5. I had seen so many reviews about the poor focus due to fly by wire, and with a B4 ENG background I don’t think I could ever get used to it.

Sony 18-110: This is the one I got scammed out of on EBay. It ticks every box for the type of lens I could use daily, but at $3500 new it’s out of my price range.

Are there any options that may be cheaper and offer a good zoom range and parfocal? I don’t care about any of the auto features so that’s not necessary. Thanks!
 
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The lens you want is the 18-110 but only you can decide if its affordable. It is certainly a great price for what it provides . You could probably get its predecessor the 28-135 for a good price used, and it would tick off some of your boxes but its a much worse zoom range. I would suggest being the bullet if you can and you will be very happy. Nothing else in even the $3500 range compares.
 
Newsguy said:
I’ve seen different threads like this, but the latest one I read was quite a while ago so I wanted to know if there were any updated impressions on workhorse lenses. I’m coming directly from a bait and switch on eBay where the seller had a deal in the 18-110 Sony, took my money, and is now saying the lens is sold out and if I want a different one. I’m slowly realizing I’m not going to find a good deal on this lens anytime soon. I currently have a Canon 24-70 and the 70-200. These have their uses, but for say a standing 2 person interview (think post game NBA/NFL) where there’s live zooming from 2 shot to single, I am really looking for something parfocal.

The lenses I have seen mentioned in some threads are:

Canon 24-105: many people’s workhorse, but gets a lot of negative criticism for it’s soft image.

Sigma 24-105: lots of people like this one, but it’s not parfocal

Fuji 18-55: I’ve actually rented this one and the telephoto and I absolutely love them. Unfortunately buying it is out of my budget.

Sony 18-105: I actually opted not to get this as the kit lens for my fs5. I had seen so many reviews about the poor focus due to fly by wire, and with a B4 ENG background I don’t think I could ever get used to it.

Sony 18-110: This is the one I got scammed out of on EBay. It ticks every box for the type of lens I could use daily, but at $3500 new it’s out of my price range.

Are there any options that may be cheaper and offer a good zoom range and parfocal? I don’t care about any of the auto features so that’s not necessary. Thanks!
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The Sony 18-105mm is serviceable for the need you described. I used it for exactly that prior to acquiring the Sony 18-110mm. It is parfocal so you can pre-set your focus before the interview starts and not have to touch the focus again unless you or one of the subjects move significantly. ( you are likely to be at an f/5.6 or at most the f/4 max so depth of field won't be that shallow when wide or only minimally zoomed in. ) It is difficult to accomplish a zoom that feathers on and off. You may have better luck performing a manual zoom. The Sony 18-110mm is a far better lens than the 18-105mm. However, the differences between the two are not THAT great and, like you said, you cannot at this time afford the 18-110mm. For a two-person interview that pushes to a single, I'd choose the Sony 18-105mm over the Sigma or the Canon that you listed. The IS on the Sony 18-105mm is very good. Parfocal is everything in certain types of shooting, as you are aware. It is wonderful to be able to preform snap-zooms that do not require you to refocus. Particularly when shooting sports or when shooting music performances. At $600 new the 18-105mm is a steal. A parfocal servo zoom with great IS for only $600? I mean, that is a no-brainer in your situation. The physical size of the lens is perfect for the Fs5 and even if you eventually graduated up to the 18-110mm the 18-105mm is a lens you will still find handy for when you want a small foot print.

Is it anywhere even close to the performance of a B4 ENG zoom or a zoom like the Canon 17-120mm? No, not even close. But it is only $600 and for what you need right now it is IMO the best option that you can afford.

Buy, buy, buy. But just have realistic expectations and consider it a stop-gap measure until you can upgrade to something else. The focus can at times be maddening compared to that of a truly mechanical focus lens. But I'd still take it over other lenses that are not parfocal.


[ edit: seeing as the Sony 18-110mm is what you really need and want, look into the "Bill Me Later" / PayPal credit options. ]

[ edit #2: I went back to a 2/3rd camera and B4 zoom for doing sports news. The range of the Sony 18-110 was lacking and the servo lacked the feathering ability of the Fuji / Canon B4 servo zooms. And the full-sized ENG shoulder-mount cameras are just better for shooting sports / sports news / news. In my experience NONE of the s35mm zooms are as good for news / sports work as B4 zooms. Not even the Canon 17-120mm. So even when you are able to afford the Sony 18-110mm you will likely find it lacking compared to a B4 zoom. ]
 
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Ringing the bell for 18-110... have it and love it for what it is. Way better than the 28-135 which we have at work. Its just not wide enough...
 
JPNola said:
The Sony 18-110mm is a far better lens than the 18-105mm. However, the differences between the two are not THAT great and, like you said, you cannot at this time afford the 18-110mm . . . at $600 new the 18-105mm is a steal. A parfocal servo zoom with great IS for only $600? I mean, that is a no-brainer in your situation.]
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I totally agree. The 18-105mm is an under-appreciated lens for people on a budget.
 
Maybe the Canon 18-80 with the servo handle would fit your needs if you don't mind spending 5K... I wish I could give you a comparison between it and a regular 18x Fuji ENG lens but I've never used it. It' a true parafocal lens as well. Good luck
 
Have you thought about simply using crop mode and a B4 lens? Great zoom range, parfocal, more DOF during the game, etc... I know several sports guys who keep either B4 or S16 lenses on their Amiras for all their game shoots (and only go into S35 mode with primes when doing sit-down interviews)
 
To me the best for run and gun is the transstandard Tamron 24-70 VC with speedboster ultra @2.0 constant and stabilized, i used it for severals years and happy with. There is new version II i didn't test.
 
It really sounds like you already know what you want/need. There's no secret magical lens that's been hiding from you. If you're gear is out and working, it's worth investing in. If you sell your 24-70, you can offset the cost of the 18-110 sony. I'd keep that 70-200 though if it's a canon 2.8 - that lens is just gorgeous, great for b roll and you already know that too.

Lots of times you can finance gear with 12 months no interest. Perhaps through Abel cine, or a local camera retailer (or just another new york retailer such as EC PRO video).


I'll say it once more, if your gear is making you money - it's worth spending money on a lens. It will make it back if you work hard :)


that said, I have the 18-55 fuji and the 70-200 f4 that I use with a speed booster. I know that when I'm done paying down this 18-55 I'll be buying it's counterpart 50-135. Gorgeous lens, I really love it.

-Wes
 
Thanks for all of the replies. I have considered the B4 option. The MTF adapter is pricey, but in my budget range. I do have access to a nice Fuji B4 lens. Wes, funny you mention EC Pro. I did a sit down out in NY and that’s who I rented the 50-135 from. They were very helpful. I fell in love with the Fuji as well. The canon photo lenses put out a beautiful image, but I can’t say enough how good it feels to crash in, get focus, and adjust my zoom throughout the interview without worrying about getting my focus before the interviewer is done asking the next question.
 
If new is your bread and butter I would get the 18-110 there simply is no other lens at the price point that will tick all your boxes.
Sell the canon 24-70 maybe also sell the 70-200 and use center crop on the 18-110 for a couple of long shots and get a Rokinon 35mm 1.4 cine prime for low light and shallow DOF. Thats what I would do.
 
Agree that the 18-110 is the best fit - specifically for r&g stuff. But understand the $ issue...I've really struggled pulling the trigger on the price tag for this lens. It somehow feels like a big fat compromise - which to my mind would be ok - if it weren't over $3k. After trying it out for the first time a few weeks ago, I still think it is somewhat a compromise - it's not sexy or fast - but it sure makes certain jobs a helluva lot easier. If you've shot 2/3 ENG, etc. this lens will make you feel like going back home to the good ole days.
I've thought about that cheap 18-105... but keep in mind I'm fairly sure that it will pin cushion badly when shooting above HD...or so I've read.
 
If you've shot 2/3 ENG, etc. this lens will make you feel like going back home to the good ole days.
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This statement encapsulates why I want this lens. I miss manually adjusting my iris on the fly, I miss not having to swap lenses constantly in high pressure situations. Parfocal is essential and I imagine that those who don’t need it come fro a DSLR background. Video lenses for video cameras, we need more of them. I love how interviews look with a 70-200 boosted, and I won’t stop doing that. But for the meat and potatoes shoots, where you can’t control every aspect of your scene, these lenses are finicky and increase the margin for error.
 
Newsguy said:
This statement encapsulates why I want this lens. I miss manually adjusting my iris on the fly, I miss not having to swap lenses constantly in high pressure situations. Parfocal is essential and I imagine that those who don’t need it come fro a DSLR background. Video lenses for video cameras, we need more of them. I love how interviews look with a 70-200 boosted, and I won’t stop doing that. But for the meat and potatoes shoots, where you can’t control every aspect of your scene, these lenses are finicky and increase the margin for error.
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"If you've shot 2/3 ENG, etc. this lens will make you feel like going back home to the good ole days."

I would put it more as it will make you feel like you are on the doorstep of the home that was the good ole days. After being on my 18-110mm the B4 lens feels so much better. The iris of the B4 lens is more mechanical in feel, more responsive, and a more convenient throw. The servo zoom of the B4 lens is like butter compared to the servo zoom of the Sony 18-110. Easily feathered on and off. Easy to perform extremely slow "creeping" zooms that are near imperceptible. The servo of the 18-110mm is far better than the servo of the 28-135mm and marginally better than the servo of the 18-105mm, but still not in the same league as the B4 zooms. After all, those B4 zooms were upwards of $20k when new.

IF and only if you have decided you cannot beg, borrow, or steal at this time or in the near future to obtain the 18-110mm, go ahead and pick up the 18-105mm and use it until you can swing the cost of the 18-110mm.

The small form factor resulting from a 18-105mm mounted to a fs5 is not somethng to be overlooked. That camera / lens combo is a great size for when you need to have a super-lightweight and small package that is discreet and can work in very tight spaces. I have often needed such a camera / lens combo when working in some small spaces- when doing BTS on a very tight film set and I had to be jammed in a corner and shoot with the camera held up high in my outstretched arms. I likely would not have been given access to the scene had I been using a less petite camera package. There is also the gimbal consideration and the 18-105mm is better for gimbal work than is the 18-110mm. Even after you upgrade from the 105 to the 110, the 105 will still have its uses. So don't feel like the money spent on the 105 is wasted once you acquire the 110.
 
The 18-110 is a lovely lens. I have been using it for a while and find it functional and practical. The 18-105, to answer your question, does not pin cushion when in 4K on the FS5, if you have the lens compensation turned on, however, the zoom is awful as is the manual focus. it just is not repeatable. Push auto focus works ok, but the 18-110 is in a different league. It is like a regular EFP zoom, which I assume is why they came out with it. There is no comparison; it is like night and day.
 
Ok here is an alternative idea. I tried the 18-105 and rejected it, because of the pin cushioning that can't be corrected in 4K and because I just hated the focusing mechanism. But I did buy and still own the Sony PZ 18-200. Its a similar lens to the 18-105 - new its $1200 but I think I got one used for much less, small, par focal and with IS but it is quite slow with an iris that ramps from f3.5 -6.3. However if your shooting exteriors, the slow iris is no problem at all and if you're shooting Custom even interiors can often be handled by that lens at f6.3 if you shoot at 9 or 12DB which still won't be noisy. I've done run and gun work at trade shows under fluorescents and had no problem at all. I just consider it an f6.3 lens and if you leave it there it won't ramp at all. I got it for the same reason you are describing - to have something like the range of the old B4 zooms. You can do a power zoom but like the rest of those Sony lenses it doesn't have the smooth stop and start and feathering control of a really good zoom lens. However I have used on camera zooms with it quite a few times and in a pinch it will work for industrials. The range is great and very good for exteriors where you need to run around a lot and want the flexibility of an 18-200 lens. I don't use mine a great deal but I probably won't sell it even though I now have the 18-110. The IQ is not as good as the 18-110 but no one has ever complained and its gotten the job done. Even at f6.3 you still have lower depth of field than you would get with something like an EX-1 or even a 2/3 chip.
Before I got the 18-110, my go-to lens for lower lit interiors was the 24-70 Tamron with IS and speed booster. Together both lenses are less than half the price of the 18-110 so its something to consider.

Lenny
 
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I sold my 28-135 and bought the 18-110 and I love it. Yes its expensive but not compared to the other cine zooms, the 19-90 cabrio while faster is significantly more expensive, the ziess 20-100 has less range for the same aperture and no integration with the camera ( although you could argue better optics ) the 18-80 canon, less range & same f stop. The fujinon 18-55 is a beautiful lens but too short for doco run and gun work. I always kept coming back to the 18-110 - for 5k australian it is an affordable cine lens that covers the range I need for the majority of my work, corporate documentary shooting. For interviews and slower shoots I use prime lenses. Swapping lenses is just not practical in many environments and I can see this lens being a go to lens for a lot of fs7 shooters for news and doco style shooting.
 
jc01108 said:
The 18-105, to answer your question, does not pin cushion when in 4K on the FS5, if you have the lens compensation turned on
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This may have been an oversight, but it's incorrect. Neither the FS5 or 7 can digitally correct lens distortion when you're recording 4K. It's a 4K sensor, so there's no wiggle room to manipulate the image unless you're recording in HD.

FWIW, I never found the wide angle distortion of the 18-105 an issue - possibly because I wasn't shooting architectural stuff with vertical straight lines. I was looking at a couple of older projects recently, shot on the 18-105, and my main observation would be that I wasn't nailing focus with it as much as I should - and I put that down to the fiddly focus mech and tiny throw. I recall it did improve with a firmware update, however.

I recently bought the 18-110 and I find it significantly, tangibly better.

Ben.
 
Re some of the points made in this thread plus some observations.

What legrevedotcom says about the Sony 18-110 I have to agree 100% with. Value for money it is very hard lens to beat for an all round sort of video semi “ENG” type lens. If you are only getting one lens this has to be it for me as it is a great all round jobbing lens.

Observations. The MTF B4 Super 16 adapter has really surprised us with the quality that a good B4 lens can deliver in HD with the centre crop on the FS7s and it works pretty well with the FS5’s ClearImage 2 x setting.

An interesting aside on the B4’s. What we did find with the MTF B4 S16 adapter is that very often the very top end SD glass gave us almost negligible CA compared to the top end HD glass. On the whole the HD glass was sharper and crisper but often we chose the SD glass as its slightly smoother image was more pleasing to the eye and generally exhibited far less in CA issues.

I discussed this CA issue with both Canon and Fujinon and got some interesting answers. As one of Fujinon senior engineers said and I quote “I’m not surprised you found these results. At the end of the day the last SD glass production runs were the very best glass and were built and aligned into the top end SD lenses. Those lenses were built as close to optically perfect both in terms of alignment and CA performance. Those top end SD lenses depended totally on their optical and mechanical design build and alignment with no electronic CA correction assistance.” He went on to add “ALAC and CAC circuits came into being in the Sony and Panasonic HD cameras and the lenses designed for them. Minor peripheral CA could be largely corrected by these correction circuits. Lens design emphasis was then put into obtaining the best optical performance, coatings, alignment and sharpness for the HD lenses. Sometimes on certain HD lenses this created some minor CA anomalies. These peripheral CA anomolies were left to be controlled by the ALAC and CAC circuits built into the cameras and the lenses.”

He went on to add that in cameras that didn’t have the associated ALAC and CAC circuits to work with compatible ALAC and CAC lenses it was frequently found that the best top end SD lenses delivered less CA issues. The FS7 and FS5 don’t have these correction circuits.

Re the Sigma. Newsguy, the OP, stated that a lot of people like the Sigma 24-105 F/4.0 ART lens. I prefer this lens to the original Canon 24-105 any day. The Canon is softer and even though rated as a constant aperture F/4.0 it does ramp somewhat at the longer end. Newsguy also stated it’s not parfocal and in that he is 100% correct. For interviews etc there is a trick though to getting that lens, and many others, to behave in a parfocal manner within a “range.” At least with the Nikon mount versions on the FS7. I can’t see why it won’t work with an FS5.

Let me qualify that “range” statement. The 24-105 Sigma in conjunction with a Helicoid Macro adapter can be made to be parfocal over certain ranges. For example if I am doing interviews I will set up the Sigma with the Helicoid in the following manner.

I place a Siemens Star back focus chart at about 3-4 metres or so and proceed to back focus as you would with a B4 lens wide open. That’s zoom in, focus on the lens barrel and then zoom out and refocus, but this time on the Helicoid adapter’s variable ring. This in effect has the same function as the back focus adjustment of a B4 lens. Repeat this process a couple of times as you would with a B4 and now all of a sudden the Sigma 24-105 is now parfocal over this sort of distance. I’ve had this work very successfully over a distance of around 6-7 metres down to the MOD of the lens which for interviews is great. Now focus on something at infinity then zoom back and you will see the lens starts in focus goes out of focus and then comes back into focus. This is because the lens is not parfocal. Using the Helicoid Macro adapter as a back focus unit you can pick certain “ranges” and have the Sigma perform in a parfocal manner within that selected and adjusted range. As I indicated this “range” trick works with a fair number of zoom lenses. I’ve used this range method on the insanely sharp current Tokina 24-70 F/2.8 to great effect just to name one. I jumped out the back this afternoon to shoot a little 45 second demo of this “range” back focus trickery. Can be seen in poor quality on the Tube at:

https://youtu.be/w4zXUh4uxIA

or downloaded in better quality at:

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/t3y4qt

On the cheaper end of the scale if you can pick up one of the quite amazing 2006-7 vintage Tokina 28-70mm F/2.8 ATX Pro lenses, it has to be a Mk I or Mk II, you will find an you have a lens built like a tank, all metal, that is, constant aperture, with an iris ring and that is parfocal and with only the slightest and I mean slightest amount of breathing when pulling focus.

https://vimeo.com/38152106

Why are these two lenses so good? The Mk I and Mk II, I use both, were built to the legendary Angeniuex formula that came from Angenieux’s famous 28-70mm F/2.6-2.8 zoom lenses which were derived from the company’s cine design heritage. Angenieux licensed Tokina to use this design. They also made a Tokina AT-X 828AF Pro 80-200mm constant F/2.8 also parfocal based on the same technology. One of which I have and I just love the fact that it is parfocal. In the end Tokina had to drop the parfocal designs as it was too costly to manufacture as opposed to the cheaper to make varifocal electronic focus still lenses coming from the likes of the Canikon brigade. Tokina’s current lenses now follow this still camera varifocal style. These earlier parfocal Angenieux designed Tokinas don’t have the contrast of the current crop of lenses but this is very easily adjusted in post.

http://www.johncaz.net/blog/tokina-at-x-pro-af-28-70mm-26-28

http://www.photographyreview.com/ca...-pro-80-200mm-f-2-8-sd/prd_84296_3128crx.aspx

The Helicoid adapter I refer to is one of these:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nikon-AI...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

There are some gems out there if you know what to look for! My 10 cents.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney
 
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My .02. The BEST run & gun lens, period, is the the 2/3" ENG Fuji HA13x4.5(or newer version)(or Canon 13x4.5). No other lens like this exists for any other format. There is no equivalent in s35, s16, still lenses, etc. As a matter of fact, a few months ago I went to a get-together Fuji had in-town showing off the MK's and their other cine lenses and I told Tom Fletcher that they need to build this lens for s35. I would probably rip the back pocket out of my shorts, I'd pull my wallet out so fast... 99% of my ENG shooting happens with the 13x4.5(I actually own two). Only God know how many off-the-shoulder interviews, live shots, getting locker room sound and post game interviews it has shot over the years on my cameras. Literally thousands upon thousands. I've owned one going back to my last Betacam.

If you're doing a lot of post game for NFL and NBA, I would forget the Fs5 and go back to a 2/3" ENG camera for that. JP and I had a little discussion about that earlier this year(s35 vs. 2/3" for ENG). We kind of live in the same world, just different markets.

I own a Canon 17-120 and use it on my F55 and C300 and while it is a great lens and I would hate to not have it, it is still NOT that lens.
 
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