Basics of Video Shooting

[Kholi]

PerroneFord @ it really helped..it all makes sense now..

i still have few basic questions that i hope you guys can help me out with...

1- lets say i want to shoot a clip on under a daylight sun with my camera set to 24fps. Do i use the lowest ISO possible? and other than that what else needs to be set. I guess the white balance needs to be put on Daylight, right?

Alrighty... if you were shooting in broad daylight (11AM - 3PMish) then you solve your over-exposure issues by:

A. Purchasing ND Filters
B. Purchasing a Polarizer
C. Employing an ISO value anywhere from 100 - 160, or 320

Why?

Because, ideally you want to shoot @ 1/45 or 1/50th shutter at all costs. The higher the shutter speed, the more staccato the motion. See: SAVING PRIVATE RYAN for a visual reference.

White Balance - There's a lot more to white balancing, unfortunately, than just setting it to Daylight. The latest information that people are going to need to learn to maximize image quality is using the COLOR SHIFT option.

For simplicity, though, you balance somewhere between 4400K and 6000K.

2- i read a lot of people recommending using a 1/50 shutter speed when using the video mode. Can someone just briefly explain how the shutter speed and aperture effect the video.

Somewhere around 1/50th shutter. I actually have been using 1/45 and I'm happiest in that range. The reason, however, is because it translates to somewhere near one-hundred and eighty degrees (180degrees) in angle. That's close to what Film is generally "shot" at.

Short: If you're mimicking the dream-like motion of film, you may want to shoot either 1/45 or 1/50. However! This is not a HARD rule, as sometimes you're able to get away with shooting much lower, barring there isn't much in the scene.

3- i have heard that having a tripod is a must when shooting films using the DSLRs like the Canon D7. I do have a tripod but i wouldnt its a very stable one. Its light and shakes a lot. How important is it to have a tripod when shooting video on the D7?

*Canon 7D

Having a tripod is not a *must*. It comes down to aesthetic and how you'd like to shoot a specific project. I, myself, prefer handheld and would purchase a Cine Saddle for static shots. They're awesome.

How can you solve the instable tripod? Sandbags on the legs. However, a good tripod is always essential: try panning with a cheap tripod, then try it with a good one, it's becomes very apparent why.

A cheap tripod, though, can be used for more than just locked-down shots. =] More on this very soon.

The rest of the questions are open for discussion.

 

[Kholi]

I wish I'd had time to fully flesh this out when we did our 5D shoot this past fall. Sadly I didn't get to fully test the camera. I scoured the internet looking for information and for the life of me, I cannot find the information related to this ISO noise and highlight holding thing.

At first glance, what you are saying about HTP seems very logical. And I am not saying that you're wrong about the ISO information. But like you, and I suspect a number of other pros, I prefer to try my own tests to validate what I read and hear.

Thanks for weighing in on this.

Sounds fair to me. When I mentioned Barry tested it, it was in a much more scientific way than pointing the camera at highlights and seeing how it plays.

That's what I did, I don't think it's conclusive, so again, that's why I mentioned Barry.

However, definitely let us know what you discover if you do get around to testing. I'm up for more info.

 

[PerroneFord]

PerroneFord @ it really helped..it all makes sense now..

i still have few basic questions that i hope you guys can help me out with...

1- lets say i want to shoot a clip on under a daylight sun with my camera set to 24fps. Do i use the lowest ISO possible? and other than that what else needs to be set. I guess the white balance needs to be put on Daylight, right?

You should use the lowest ISO that gives you the correct expousre. It's quite possible in this scenario, that you will not be able to select an ISO low enough to give you the proper exposure, and you will need to resort to using ND filters on the lenses.

2- i read a lot of people recommending using a 1/50 shutter speed when using the video mode. Can someone just briefly explain how the shutter speed and aperture effect the video.

As shutter speed increases, the amount of time light has to hit the sensor decreases. So the recorded image gets darker. Making the shutter speed shorter, also creates a different look to the motion of subjects in front of the camera. So using a shutter speed of about 1/48 or 1/50 of a second while shooting at 24fps imparts a look we are used to seeing in Hollywood films.

As the aperture increases (numbers get smaller) we allow more light into the sensor. And the image gets brighter. A side effect of this as as we increase aperature, we decrase our depth of field. So while shooting a subject at F16 may allow things 20ft behind our subject to be in focus, by the time we get to F2, whatever is behind them is not just a blob of color.

3- i have heard that having a tripod is a must when shooting films using the DSLRs like the Canon D7. I do have a tripod but i wouldnt its a very stable one. Its light and shakes a lot. How important is it to have a tripod when shooting video on the D7?

I would not say a tripod is a must. What I would say is that having some way to stabilize the camera when you shoot is a VERY good idea. Whether that be a tripod, steadicam, shoulder mount, fig rig, or whatever. Holding the camera in your hands, especially if you are on the move, is a recipe for trouble for most shooters.

4- when you record a video with your D7 and want to upload it to your computer, what format does it save as?

The files are stored as h.264 videos in a .MOV wrapper.

5- someone in this thread mentioned that if you have an old computer or a laptop its harder to edit the videos? its still doable though..right? I mean i dont mind if it takes too long to edit as long as it doesnt effect the quality of the videos or anything like that its all good.

It's hard to edit the native videos no matter what kind of computer you may have. The solution is to covert the videos to something your computer can handle more easily. This does not have to degrade the quality of the video, but done sloppily, it often will.

6- would you guys agree that final cut is the best software to edit the videos with? like i always wanted to add effects to my videos and stuff. Does final cut pro have those options?

I would not agree that Final Cut Pro is the best way. I would say it is a very good way. But there are other very good ways as well. If you want to add effects to the video, Final Cut Studio certainly has a lot to choose from.

7- what settings is it usually used to shoot at night? with a f/2.8 lens.

There are far too many variables involved for anyone to give an intelligent answer to this question.

I know im too many questions but before starting to read the manual or the other parts of forum i just want to get some basic questions that i have been asking myself, answered.
Really appreciate the help everyone.

Nyquil kicking in... need to go lay down...

 

[PerroneFord]

However, definitely let us know what you discover if you do get around to testing. I'm up for more info.

The camera (5D) we used belongs to a friend, so I doubt I could get it for extensive testing purposes. And I am not due to get my 7D until the fall. But I have faith in Barry and his testing methodology (usually) so I'll live with that info for now.

 

[cheezweezl]

i haven't done any scientific tests myself but the lenscap test seems to be an accurate indicator of noise level. i stick to 160, 320, 640, 1250, and god forbid i have to shoot higher than that because it is a noisy mess.

 

[Tim Kay]

Amir, if you ever meet Perrone, I believe a beer or 3 are in order for the information he is serving on a silver plattter!

The topics have been covered really well and as it was stated, if you're starting from the very beginning, then ah, be prepared for INFORMATION OVERLOAD!

If you are starting from the beginning and aren't planning on making this a profession, I would start not with Final Cut Pro, but Imovies. While final cut is one of the best NLE out there, it isn't intuitive for the first 2 weeks

Keep it simple - try to focus on the 'art' of movie making. Theres going to be so much to learn that to keep up motivation, keep it simple. Because the 7D is by no means a 'simple' video camera to operate properly.

While a tripod isn't a must...you know what.... i'm going to say it is. A tripod, next to the camera is the most versatile and functional aspect of movie making! And the best part about one is that it doesn't become obsolete like a camera. People are still using great tripods from the 70's!

Hang out on forums like these and just keep making films about anything. I'm about to release my 2nd one tomorrow and already have my next idea planned, all while having the camera for about 2 weeks. This is a great passion/hobby/career so have fun.

 

[Amir Vii]

perrone i really appericiate the time you spent making that post...ill spend the first few weeks making short clips and trying to figure this out and i will let you guys know if i have any problems..thanks all again

 

[Amir Vii]

ok so i was looking at some of the videos on youtube that are shot using the Canon 7D and i saw this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfX4slh9Zo

on the description it says that the video was shot at a shutter speed of 30. but the clip still looks like a Hollywood kind of movie. I just want to make sure im getting this right, i think someone said here that the Hollywood movies are usually shot at 40 shutter speed. can someone explain this, im kind of confused.

and one last thing is 24p and 24fps the same thing?

 

[PerroneFord]

ok so i was looking at some of the videos on youtube that are shot using the Canon 7D and i saw this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfX4slh9Zo

on the description it says that the video was shot at a shutter speed of 30. but the clip still looks like a Hollywood kind of movie. I just want to make sure im getting this right, i think someone said here that the Hollywood movies are usually shot at 40 shutter speed. can someone explain this, im kind of confused.

This is not written in stone. It is customary to shoot with a shutter speed that is (1 / (2xfps)) So if shooting 24 frames per second (which is common for film) then you would use a 1/48 shutter or 1 divided by 2 times the frame rate. A movie shot at 30 frames per second would normally use a 1/60 shutter. And so forth. Again, this is just the common thing. You can use a longer or shutter shutter for certain looks or effects.

and one last thing is 24p and 24fps the same thing?

No, but they are related. 24fps = 24 frames per second. 24p is shorthand for saying 24 PROGRESSIVE frames per second.

 

[Amir Vii]

This is not written in stone. It is customary to shoot with a shutter speed that is (1 / (2xfps)) So if shooting 24 frames per second (which is common for film) then you would use a 1/48 shutter or 1 divided by 2 times the frame rate. A movie shot at 30 frames per second would normally use a 1/60 shutter. And so forth. Again, this is just the common thing. You can use a longer or shutter shutter for certain looks or effects.



No, but they are related. 24fps = 24 frames per second. 24p is shorthand for saying 24 PROGRESSIVE frames per second.

thanks perrone
what are codecs? i was watching this video on youtube and this person uploaded aclip and someone asked him what kind of codec did you use and thats what he said "Apple Pro Res 422*, do codecs change the quality or anything like that and how do you change the codecs?

 

[PerroneFord]

codec stands for "compressor / decompressor". Compression is a way of making a video file smaller. A decompressor read that compressed file, and is able to play it. It's like in the world of photographs. A TIF image is a compressed version of a photo. But it's very high quality. You can further compress that as a jpg, a png, a GIF image, etc. Each of those compresses the file a certain way. Some preserve more quality than others.

It's the same with video. Your camera cannot record uncompressed HD. Most cameras cannot. So a codec is used in the camera to make it possible to record the scenes and write them to tape or solid state media. Popular codecs for doing that in the camera are HDV, AVCHD, XDCam, DVCProHD. There are all highly compressed formats. Very high end cameras use less compressed formats and therefore preserve more of the original image.

When you shoot in a consumer camcorder these days, you genreally use AVCHD. That is a VERY highly compressed format. You then bring this into an editor. And typically you compress the file again. Hopefully, this second compression uses a format that doesn't destroy any quality, and in fact, may make the file size larger in the process. Such is the case with ProRes. Then you do your edits, and you prepare the footage for delivery. That may mean on the web, or DVD or BluRay. And each of those requires a specific codec to be used. For DVD the codec is Mpeg2. For the web it may be Mpeg4/AVC. For BluRay it may be Mpeg2 or AVC or VC1.

Sometimes we have a choice over codecs, like when we bring a file into the editor. Sometimes we don't, like when the image is compressed in the camera. And sometimes the delivery media demands a specific codec, like DVD which ONLY used Mpeg2.

 

[Amir Vii]

codec stands for "compressor / decompressor". Compression is a way of making a video file smaller. A decompressor read that compressed file, and is able to play it. It's like in the world of photographs. A TIF image is a compressed version of a photo. But it's very high quality. You can further compress that as a jpg, a png, a GIF image, etc. Each of those compresses the file a certain way. Some preserve more quality than others.

It's the same with video. Your camera cannot record uncompressed HD. Most cameras cannot. So a codec is used in the camera to make it possible to record the scenes and write them to tape or solid state media. Popular codecs for doing that in the camera are HDV, AVCHD, XDCam, DVCProHD. There are all highly compressed formats. Very high end cameras use less compressed formats and therefore preserve more of the original image.

When you shoot in a consumer camcorder these days, you genreally use AVCHD. That is a VERY highly compressed format. You then bring this into an editor. And typically you compress the file again. Hopefully, this second compression uses a format that doesn't destroy any quality, and in fact, may make the file size larger in the process. Such is the case with ProRes. Then you do your edits, and you prepare the footage for delivery. That may mean on the web, or DVD or BluRay. And each of those requires a specific codec to be used. For DVD the codec is Mpeg2. For the web it may be Mpeg4/AVC. For BluRay it may be Mpeg2 or AVC or VC1.

Sometimes we have a choice over codecs, like when we bring a file into the editor. Sometimes we don't, like when the image is compressed in the camera. And sometimes the delivery media demands a specific codec, like DVD which ONLY used Mpeg2.

wow that was quick..thanks perrone i really appreciate you replying to all my questions in details..
this is going to be my last 2 questions..i promise
1- when converting using the codecs that you just explained above what software do i have to use? like lets say i want to upload my test shots on youtube or other websites...

2- when editing clips do i have to edit the original clip shot from the camera or the one that is coverted to a smaller file?

3- i was looking at another video on youtube shot with the 7D and this is one of the comments..what exactly are these FCPs

"Not bad for a 'test video' Mike...... not bad at all. Good composition, use of light within your shots and use of X 2 FCP shot speed cut with 24fps... nice sequence. Tell me how easy was it to introduce your video files onto FCP?"

 

[PerroneFord]

wow that was quick..thanks perrone i really appreciate you replying to all my questions in details..
this is going to be my last 2 questions..i promise

1- when converting using the codecs that you just explained above what software do i have to use? like lets say i want to upload my test shots on youtube or other websites...

These changes are usually performed in whatever video editing program you use.

2- when editing clips do i have to edit the original clip shot from the camera or the one that is coverted to a smaller file?

You do not have to use the original clips, but to say "smaller file" is something of a mistake. Chances are the file you will use in the editor will be larger, less compressed, and much better quality that what is recorded in your camera. This won't magically make your recorded footage better, but it will keep it from degrading further as you make changes to it.

3- i was looking at another video on youtube shot with the 7D and this is one of the comments..what exactly are these FCPs

"Not bad for a 'test video' Mike...... not bad at all. Good composition, use of light within your shots and use of X 2 FCP shot speed cut with 24fps... nice sequence. Tell me how easy was it to introduce your video files onto FCP?"

FCP = Final Cut Pro. A professional video editing program that runs on Apple Macintosh machines.

 

[steventimothy]

Amir, you should probably consider upgrading your computer or you will find editing hellish. HD video requires lots of bandwidth and processor speed or it's slow as can be. You should definitely have two hard drives striped together for editing video, minimum, and a separate drive for audio. One drive can do it, yes, but you'll get stuttering, because the seek times are slower for a single drive. And if you're trying to read audio off the same drive, you'll get more stuttering as the head skips around to read all the media.

You definitely don't need to use a mac and final cut, unless you want to. But you can get more power for the dollar with a PC. A dell i7 rig with a decent video card could be had for $1,000 or less, including a 22" or so monitor. You'd want at least 8 gb ram - I'd recommend 12 GB. Premiere pro works great, it's as powerful as final cut, just different. I've seen it for $150.00.

You might be in for a world of hurt, editing wise, without an upgrade.

 

[Michael Olsen]

HD video requires lots of bandwidth and processor speed or it's slow as can be. You should definitely have two hard drives striped together for editing video, minimum, and a separate drive for audio. One drive can do it, yes, but you'll get stuttering, because the seek times are slower for a single drive. And if you're trying to read audio off the same drive, you'll get more stuttering as the head skips around to read all the media.

You definitely don't need to use a mac and final cut, unless you want to. But you can get more power for the dollar with a PC. A dell i7 rig with a decent video card could be had for $1,000 or less, including a 22" or so monitor. You'd want at least 8 gb ram - I'd recommend 12 GB. Premiere pro works great, it's as powerful as final cut, just different. I've seen it for $150.00.

You might be in for a world of hurt, editing wise, without an upgrade.

Just...a counterpoint. I've done my 7D editing thus far on the first generation Intel Macbook Pro (Snow Leopard) in Final Cut Studio 3. That is a single 500GB HDD with 4GB of RAM along with, at this point in time, a fairly old and underpowered processor and video card. I have never had any noticeable stuttering or audio problems...but I was editing ProRes LT 422. My experience is certainly not optimal - I'm sure a much higher spec computer would make things a bit quicker, especially in regards to compression times, but it is definitely not "hellish".

(To be fair, my laptop is also usually connected to external HDDs for backup/delivery and at least one external monitor to help with real estate, along with a keyboard and mouse.)

Editing the H.264 is just a mess. That said, I'm hoping that Apple makes some good decisions with their MacPro update.

 

[PerroneFord]

I've done my 7D editing thus far on the first generation Intel Macbook Pro (Snow Leopard) in Final Cut Pro 3, Motion, and Color. That is a single 500GB HDD with 4GB of RAM.

I have never had any noticeable stuttering or audio problems...but I was editing ProRes LT 422.

Then you haven't done 7D editing. You've done ProResLT editing. BIG difference.

 

[Michael Olsen]

Then you haven't done 7D editing. You've done ProResLT editing. BIG difference.

Sure, I'll agree to that. H.264 is terrible codec for editing as it takes absurd amounts of resources.

But who edits the H.264 files in FCP? And why? Saving on the encoding time?

 

[PerroneFord]

Sure, I'll agree to that. H.264 is terrible codec for editing as it takes absurd amounts of resources.

But who edits the H.264 files in FCP? And why? Saving on the encoding time?

Oh I know, but forums are FULL of people who are trying to edit the native h.264 footage, and mad that their core2duo or quadcores aren't "fast enough" to do it. And who get indignant when you tell them they should be transcoding for all kinds of reasons.

As to why? Who knows. Most likely because they've gotten used to dropping native footage on the timeline in DV or HDV, and thus AVCHD should just "work", like what they have been doing. I can't say really...

 

[Michael Olsen]

Oh I know, but forums are FULL of people who are trying to edit the native h.264 footage, and mad that their core2duo or quadcores aren't "fast enough" to do it. And who get indignant when you tell them they should be transcoding for all kinds of reasons.

As to why? Who knows. Most likely because they've gotten used to dropping native footage on the timeline in DV or HDV, and thus AVCHD should just "work", like what they have been doing. I can't say really...

Right, right...just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on something.

 

[jonE5]

hey perrone,

whats the best software for re-enconding these? is it that pro-res? Is that free?

I just found out that just dropping my files on the time line in vegas on my 7D footage does not work, (as it did when i was using my D90)

jon