Bare Minimum (while still functional) setup for HVX with Letus35

puredrifting said:
Here's what I am in for so far...

1. LEX - $1,200.00
2. Cavision LEX extension rod base - $350.00
3. Red Rock Micro 24" rods - $119.00
4. Extra Cavision rod base for Anton Bauer Elipsz mount - $150.00
5. Nebtek HD monitor - $2,000.00
6. Nikon 28mm 2.8D, 50mm 1.4 AIS, 85mm 1.8 AIS, 105mm 2.8 D Micro - $,1400.00
7. Red Rock FF - $645.00
8. Cinevate Matte Box - $500.00
9. Formatt CP, ND Grads, Grad Set - $1,400.00
10. Storm 2975 Case - $200.00

And my setup is not even close to top of the line, it's just the basics to do it right. Remember, this is on top of $5,199.00 for the HVX and another $3,000.00 in P2 cards.

I am loving my setup but it's definitely not for run and gun, which I do a lot of. It essentially turns your camera into a film camera, which is great for filmmaking but not so great for a lot of other situations. Just like RED. Great movie camera, terrible EFP/ENG camera, the wrong tool.
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i'm new to the whole 35 mm setup as well. i have a question about your setup. what is number 7 (Red Rock FF - $645.00) and 9 (Formatt CP, ND Grads, Grad Set - $1,400.00)? and what are they used for?

also, with a 35mm adapter are you not able to do anything handheld? how do the big boys do handheld in movies like Bourne Identity, Traffic, etc?
 
Hi James:

Number 7 is a Red Rock Follow Focus http://www.redrockmicro.com/mff_product.htm
You need one because when you are trying to manually focus 35mm lenses, you need a smooth, repeatable focus point and tool to obtain it, which is what a follow focus is for. Also, a follow focus has a place to put a long crank/whip to focus your lens from a slight distance, usually by an assistant camera operator called an AC. Also, with longer 35mm lenses, if you try to manually focus by yanking on the focus ring, you will see it in your picture, a follow focus allows you to smoothly focus without touching the lens and jerking the camera.

Number 9 are filters for the matte box. IMHO, you need a circular polarizer (CP), about $300.00 to $400.00 for a good one made with white water Schott Glass, ND grads (these are neutral density filters that are darker at the top and graduated to clear by the middle of the filter - they are for knocking down levels on blown out skies and horizons - remember your camera can't see nearly as much range as your eye?) and then you need full neutral density filters to manage your aperture on your 35mm lens and your HVX, most of the adapters don't look good if you have to stop down the camera's aperture too much. A typical Grad set is an ND Grad .03, .06, .09, same for the ND set so that's a total of 7 filters I use, just to manage light levels in various ways. Effects filters are better left to post IMHO.

You can totally shoot handheld with a 35mm adapter IF you have the right rig, which is big, long and heavy like this http://www.zacuto.com/Letus_06.htm AND you have an AC to pull focus and iris and keep you from walking into things and falling down stairs, etc. It's much more like a film setup. It takes labor and skill. Think about it, what if you are following an actor and using a 35mm adapter with a very shallow depth of field, how do you keep the actor in frame, frame composed artistically, pull focus and pull iris, all at the same time, by yourself? Not very easy to do. You really need an AC and the proper rig to do it right. Trying to do it half assed will result in a half assed project usually ;-)

Usually the big boys have two ACs, a cable puller and a lot of rehearsal. I work on Prison Break, that show is about 80% handheld and that's with Panavision packages that weigh between 75lbs and 100lbs. Each camera has an AC with a wireless follow focus, an operator and a cable puller, then there are two more ACs that prep the packages, do the mag changes, etc. It's no big deal to shoot handheld with a decent sized video camera like an f950 or a Varicam, but it is a big deal to follow focus when you have 4 inches of depth of field and to pull iris and to be safe and efficient. That's why features like the ones you mentioned have a camera department of probably 5-15 people. Doing on a tiny level for guys like us still takes more labor than ourselves.

Dan
 
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ah, now that makes sense. do you definately NEED a matte box? also where is a good place to buy a set of lenses like Nikon? how much should i expect to pay for a nice set of 85mm, 50mm and 28mm lenses?

what's the learning curve on getting the adapter out the box and shooting great footage? i've seen some pretty bad footage from some guys that use these adapters. a lot of times it looks too blurry or soft, but then somebody with the same setup will come along and have footage that looks 10 times better.
 
Not only is a mattebox used for filters it's used to keep flare off your lenses. If you don't mind flare and are ok with using screw on filters(or no filters at all) then you don't need one.
For lenses online I usually shop at www.keh.com www.adorama.com (used section because i'm cheap) and sometimes www.bhphotovideo.com

I got my nikons 35mm 1.4, 50mm 1.4, and 85mm 1.8 for $550
 
FilmBoy77 said:
ah, now that makes sense. do you definately NEED a matte box? also where is a good place to buy a set of lenses like Nikon? how much should i expect to pay for a nice set of 85mm, 50mm and 28mm lenses?

what's the learning curve on getting the adapter out the box and shooting great footage? i've seen some pretty bad footage from some guys that use these adapters. a lot of times it looks too blurry or soft, but then somebody with the same setup will come along and have footage that looks 10 times better.
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I think you need a matte box for exteriors. If you only shoot interiors, you can probably get away without using one. But once you deal with the sun and horizons, windows, water, haze, etc. You need filters. If you are using filters, you don't have to have a matte box but it sure does work better than screw-on single filters and its the only decent way to use grads unless you get a separate filter holder like Cokin or Lee. And Matt is right, you need a matte box for flares and reflections. You don't have to have a matte box but you will eventually get one.

Lenses? I bought mine off of Ebay and I already owned several from my still cameras. I splurged on a 105mm 2.8 Micro that was like a $700.00 lens but I shoot a lot of macro stills and it looks amazing for HD as well. I would say with careful shopping you can get an average quality set for around $400.00 to $500.00 if you shop around. The best would be a set of the Zeiss primes but then you are talking a few thousand dollars or better yet, PL mount cine lenses but then you could be talking tens of thousands of dollars for a full set.

The learning curve between getting an adaptor out of the box and shooting great looking footage is an impossible to answer question. It's like saying how long from unboxing your new Arri lights to doing killer looking lighting setups? Could be decades ;-) If you already know what you are doing and are just adding an adapter to obtain shallower depth of field, I would say just few hours. If you are a newbie to video/film, could take quite a while before you develop your eye and skills.

Yes, I have actually seen very little 35mm adapter footage that looked truly great but it's the same with regular non-adapter footage too, right? Since gear is relatively cheap now, you have a lot of accountants, lawyers, doctors, philosophy students and all other walks of life who are now, with the flick of a credit card, "filmmakers", of course you are going to see a lot of bad footage ;-) If you want to see someone who has shot some kick ass 35mm adapter footage, check out www.philipbloom.net and look at his Letus/EX-1 footage he shot of London. That is some nice footage.

I have been shooting a theatrical doc about a famous musician with mine but I can't show anything yet ;-( I only received my Letus about 3-4 weeks ago so I have been too busy to go out and shoot some pretty stuff but I will in January.

Best of luck,

Dan
 
Matty_g said:
Not only is a mattebox used for filters it's used to keep flare off your lenses. If you don't mind flare and are ok with using screw on filters(or no filters at all) then you don't need one.
For lenses online I usually shop at www.keh.com www.adorama.com (used section because i'm cheap) and sometimes www.bhphotovideo.com

I got my nikons 35mm 1.4, 50mm 1.4, and 85mm 1.8 for $550
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Hi Matty:

Do you get any vignetting on your 35mm 1.4? Also, have you used any long lenses on your setup like a 200 or 300mm? I am thinking about a 300mm f4 to shoot stills of my sons soccer games and if I buy a D lens, I could use it on the Letus as well. Could be cool to shoot surfing, windsailing, both of which I am a 15 minute drive from.

Dan
 
On the camera side? Nothing. HVX200, with a Letus Extreme mounted in front, and a Nikon lens. I think for the most part Macgregor was using his 17-35 zoom, but he also occasionally brought out some longer lenses (don't remember exactly what, but probably a 50mm and an 85mm).

That was it. No rails, no mattebox, no follow focus, no anything.
 
Barry_Green said:
On the camera side? Nothing. HVX200, with a Letus Extreme mounted in front, and a Nikon lens. ...

That was it. No rails, no mattebox, no follow focus, no anything.
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Would you say thats 'okay' to do?
(i'm assuming you won't go as far as to say its a 'good idea')

I just picked up a Letus Extreme today for some tests, and I have to say I was surprised by its weight - the thing is really built like a tank.
It would make me a bit nervous to have it hanging off the HVX without any support.

Of course if I thought I could get away with that...I'd be tempted to order one today.
Its all the added costs that have been holding me back from getting an adapter.
 
Barry_Green said:
On the camera side? Nothing. HVX200, with a Letus Extreme mounted in front, and a Nikon lens. I think for the most part Macgregor was using his 17-35 zoom, but he also occasionally brought out some longer lenses (don't remember exactly what, but probably a 50mm and an 85mm).

That was it. No rails, no mattebox, no follow focus, no anything.
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so how do you deal with flare from the sun or when it's too bright outside, etc? and also with no follow focus are you just using the camera's focus ring and still getting good footage?
 
You're not supposed to shoot pointed directly at the sun. When not directly pointing at the sun, you can always flag off the sun to avoid flare. Same thing with lights.
 
FilmBoy77 said:
so how do you deal with flare from the sun or when it's too bright outside, etc?
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We were talking about LMTF. It was shot all indoors in a studio, except for one outdoors scene. We made sure no direct light hit the lens. So no extra precautions were necessary.

and also with no follow focus are you just using the camera's focus ring and still getting good footage?
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Well, watch it and judge. I think it turned out pretty good...

Would I rather have had a full-fledged mattebox/rails/follow focus setup? Yes, of course. But we didn't have that stuff for this production. And it turned out fine.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Would you say thats 'okay' to do?
(i'm assuming you won't go as far as to say its a 'good idea')
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No, I'd definitely want some proper lens support, the Extreme is a tad heavy. If you've got a skilled cinematographer like Macgregor handling the camera and you know it won't bump into anything, etc., then you can "get away" with it. I'll be getting a rails setup once the dust settles.
 
it also depends on the lens.

a 50mm F1.4 or a 2.8 24mm weigh ounces. so its not TOO stressful on the camera threads. But a lens like a 85 F1.2, or a 200mm F2.8 weigh like 2 pounds each. thats alot of torque on your camera body.
 
i'm glad to hear barry doesn't obsess about a matte box. i'd say they are nice to have, but don't see why people can't flag light with a $20 clip on- . I never thought they were a priority-I don't get this lust to have the coolest looking huge unit to work with. I'd like to use those filters but you add that to the box and your spending thousands again. I'd say Barry's set up is bare minimum if you have the L FE or Economy, but if you have the LEX I'd say at least cheap rails are included in that (unless you have Macgregor, of course:)
 
shortnstout said:
i'm glad to hear barry doesn't obsess about a matte box. i'd say they are nice to have, but don't see why people can't flag light with a $20 clip on- . I never thought they were a priority-I don't get this lust to have the coolest looking huge unit to work with. I'd like to use those filters but you add that to the box and your spending thousands again. I'd say Barry's set up is bare minimum if you have the L FE or Economy, but if you have the LEX I'd say at least cheap rails are included in that (unless you have Macgregor, of course:)
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Sure he doesn't obsess, he has a Vocas ;-)

It wasn't used for this short but Barry has posted several times about how much he likes his Vocas matte box.

Dan
 
I've obsessed before, I went through several matteboxes including the CAvision and Chrosziel before settling on the Vocas.

Keeping stray light off your lens is vital. Stray light washes out your contrast and ruins your images. A good mattebox keeps that stray light off the lens for you.

Shooting with one is always better than shooting without one. No doubt.

The L35 Extreme was new when I got it, I didn't have a rails system that would support the L35 Extreme and a mattebox at the same time (and, frankly, still don't... I need to get one.)

But that doesn't mean you can't shoot without one. You just have to be methodical and make sure that you flag any stray light from hitting the lens. That may mean positioning a black flag to block light, or a strategic sheet of black wrap, or making someone stand in a certain position, etc.

A mattebox makes that job much easier, because it inherently blocks out much stray light. Which makes it better than not using one. On "Unawakening" we had the lens shade of the Canon lens, which did the job. On LMTF we were indoors and didn't have too many worries.

Sooner or later Letus will release their rod system and I'll get it and from then on I'll have the Vocas mounted in front of the lens from then on. It *is* better to have as much light-blocking shading as you can get. But it's not critical; if you don't have it you just have to address the problem in other ways.
 
that's good info. i know stray light is bad. indoor shooting its not much an issue for me. for outdoors can't you use something like this http://www.cavision.com/matteboxes/more/clamponflap.htm ? I'm sure a matte box is great to have but I work solo a lot and try to keep mobile and wouldn't consider it part of the bare minimum that this thread is about. With a matte box i worry about adding to what i have to transport when solo and the expens for what it does for me and thought maybe one or two of those clamp flags would work nicely for bare minimum.
 
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