FS7: B-camera: need your expert advise :)

P

Im completely off the curve in terms of DSLR for video.

The batteries, skinny hdmi just kind of rules them all out... on the other hand a flip screen canon with the new AF just get some simple shots that deliver fine for vimeo/YT at HD

Like I said I think you need to clearly know what you want to do and why.

My case for a DSLR is getting my canon lensed stills colleague to pick up a few shots on occasion for our HD25p projects - he doesnt really 'get' focus, wont mess with a big monitor/rigs or sound whatever.. just a little cam that he can throw in his kit and throw his lenses on certainly without buying a $400 adapter and dinking with the firmware for it.

Here simplicity and AF are kings.

Once you start 'caring' I guess the sony options might be a little higher up the tree for image and need a little more investigation into actual specs.

One consideration is that your sony 28-135 lens could be wonderful with a full-frame sony body.
 
I'd like to think that in here we 'care' a bit! :)


I sold my A7sII recently purely because I don't like having work gear sitting around that I'm not monetising, but I certainly have my eye on the A6500 and the GH5.

A Viltrox Speedbooster is about £100 and does a very good job if you need to increase your speed so you don't need to spend £600 on a Metabones one.
 
morgan_moore said:
One consideration is that your sony 28-135 lens could be wonderful with a full-frame sony body.
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Yeah - I thought about it, too... On the other hand, please tell me what happens with FOV when I put one of my Canon lenses with Speed Booster on the full-frame camera like the A7s II? Does it put the camera into the APS-C mode, meaning that the effective focal length behaves similarly to that of my 28-135mm when put on the FS7 S35mm? So, my 16-35mm Canon will effectively become... what? This is important, as perhaps the more appropriate solution for using my EF Canon lenses would be a "neutral" adapter,rather than the Speed Booster...

Sorry for such lame questions :)

Piotr
 
Ben Scott said:
I'd like to think that in here we 'care' a bit! :).
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Well if you ever use a goPro or a phantom you don't care.

Many national broadcast shoots use these cameras.

Im agnostic either way because some jobs just need shots and some want to sustain a look and feel.

I dont think we can help Piotr until he clarifies what he is trying to do and if he 'cares'

To me caring starts at 10bit and not at '4k' 420

S
 
I don't follow.

Nobody uses a GoPro or Phantom in broadcast for anything other than the specialised jobs they do. They are certainly not used as standard B cameras.

I do not recall the last time I saw a 5D being used on broadcast television outside of news, and even then it is more often an A7s being used in low light in some far flung hellhole (Calais basically).

As I said, the GH5 will be 10-bit internal recording.
 
I know what Sam means. I hate 4:2:0 8 bit video and jello more than most. It's one of the reasons my B camera for my FS7 is an FS7. That said, I've just ordered an A6500 for gimbal use as I don't want to use a rig with my Ronin. If it works for a B cam during interviews that will be a bonus.
 
I can recommend the a6300 IQ wise BUT only as a gimbal cam and for short runs only and only in 4K I use it with a Batis 18mm alongside the fs7 they match up nicely in log with minimal tweaking. I would not use it for long runs like interviews etc.
 
Here's a thing. I HATE b-cam alternate angle usually unmanned camera for interviews. The editor in me understands the necessity for safety of having something to cut to but usually if A-cam is given an hour of setup time and then b-cam is given 2mins and left to roll in not ideal lighting and more often than not it really jars in the final edit.

I'd rather shoot some proper cutaways*





* Until I get the Second Shooter add-on for my dolly
 
Ben Scott said:
Here's a thing. I HATE b-cam alternate angle usually unmanned camera for interviews. The editor in me understands the necessity for safety of having something to cut to but usually if A-cam is given an hour of setup time and then b-cam is given 2mins and left to roll in not ideal lighting and more often than not it really jars in the final edit.

I'd rather shoot some proper cutaways*
* Until I get the Second Shooter add-on for my dolly
Click to expand...



Same here Ben. I absolutely loathe the profile close up, though not as much as I hate the slightly off-axis angle that seems to feature in nearly every gear review on YouTube - that really is the hallmark of someone who learned their trade from the internet!

What I can't work out though is why when people use two cameras they don't bother to get them to match? I see that all the time on BBC/Sky et al.
 
Yup.

It's a 30 degree rule, not the 30 degree suggestion.

Currently seeing lots of news interviews and even in the F1 of a single shooter using the looping autopan motion slider shot as their b-cam and every time they cut from the static to a wide moving 2-shot it is jarring as hell.
 
morgan_moore said:
I dont think we can help Piotr until he clarifies what he is trying to do and if he 'cares'
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Dear Sam at al,

I perfectly understand any advise on a subject like this depends on the asking person's needs and plans for usage. In my case, it's a bit difficult to explain as I'm not even sure I'll ever be able to realize my plans - simply because of my health conditions (some of you might remember I had to give up active shooting because of my neck spine condition after 2 unsuccessful surgeries). Bat man is always hoping for the best, hence I'm still dreaming I'll be able of returning to more serious activity one day...

You asked, Sam - so please forgive me if it's going to be a rather long post. Well - first of all, I've never been a 100% professional camera op (my real main profession you can read about in my LinkedIn profile here: https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-wozniacki-94922120 . But before my spine condition required surgeries, I was active DPing, shooting and editing multi-camera "coverages" of annual classical music events I organized with a small agency Castello GT (http://castellogt.pl/) in the beautiful premises of the ancient Royal Castle of Wawel in Krakow, Poland (until 1611, the formal seat of the Polish monarchy). We used to shoot them with 6-10 cameras (mine used to be the old good EX1); I then edited the events in Sony Vegas Pro and authored BDs/DVDs of which we managed to sell many; the concerts were also often bought from us by various broadcasters, including the Polish National TV. All this had come to an abrupt end after my surgeries, as I was unable to even hold my camera :( But I never ceased the grading/editing job.

As soon as I had rehabilitated enough after the surgeries, and still missing my video-making activity, I managed to upgrade all my rig to UHD as I wanted it to be future-proof (as I assumed at my age and heath condition, if i don't buy all the equipment now I may never be able to in the future). As you know, I also stepped up from Vegas Pro to DaVinci Resolve Studio... I've been shooting anything I considered worth filming, and - while still learning Resolve - I've "created" features, "beauty shot shorts" and alike for almost half a year now - all as a one-man band...

So coming back to answering your question what I'd need a B-camera for: I'd like to return to shooting live chamber music events (this time for my personal use only, as I love classical music); I was thinking of setting up a wide shot of the ensemble with one camera (unmanned FS7 on sticks), and use a lightweight and low-profile camera like the Sony alpha to gather interesting close-ups of the soloists, or just different angles of the entire chamber orchestra - just to make my film less static. I'd depend on the lighting as provided by the concert venue - and only hire one person: the sound engineer.

I hope I managed to explain why and how I'm planing a B-camera, and it will be enough for you guys to help me further on choosing the right one fit for the purpose. Again, sorry for the lengthy post;

Piotr
 
Ben Scott said:
Why would you use a speedbooster on a full frame camera? It will cause most lenses to vignette.
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Well - in APS-C mode I reckon I could use Speed Booster. But I've just read that for some strange reasons, the A7S II doesn't allow 4K recording in APS-C mode - neither internally, nor externally.

Piotr
 
OK, so I did my homework and narrowed my choice to the following 2 models:

A6500 vs a7s ii.JPG

Now:

- since A7s II doesn't offer APS-C mode in 4K, I'd need to buy another adapter (e.g. Metabones Mark IV) to make use of my EF Canon lenses; I also have a couple of nice FD vintage primes (F1.4) with their own dumb adapters so I could use those in low-light when the F4.0 would not be fast enough; last but not least - my Sony 28-135mm would work great on this camera. But the latter would probably require switching the roles I described earlier for the FS7 and the B-cam, in that the wide, static, unmanned operation would be performed by the A7s II and I'd have to walk around looking for nice shots (angles/close-ups) with my FS7. Also the fact that I'd probably like to record the AS7 II on a Shogun would warrant putting it on the tripod rather than hand-hold it... EDIT: roll time, max media size and overheating of those small cams make this scenario doubtful :(

- in the case of the A6500 I could make it really cheap, as a) the camera is much cheaper than the A7S II and b) I could just put the kit lens on my FS7, and use the A6500 with the Speed Booster I already have.

What do you think, guys? Any additional advise would be appreciated :)

Piotr
 
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I'm probably going to get an A6500 and I used to own an A7sII if that is any help.

Again, the Commlite adapter is a fine and cheap alternative to the Metabones MKIV
 
The A7sII wasn't making any money so was a glorified stills camera / free b camera.

An APSC version of it for half the price sound great.


I'm not fussed about full frame 35mm.

I'd never ever shoot video on the A7sII over 6400ISO and many other cameras can do that too.

Stills performance is good (this and the A7S mk1 travelled the world with me) but for timelapse etc more megapixels is good.
 
P

Thanks for clarification

It would appear that if you want to do a wide lock off with your Bcam and are shooting in fairly controlled situations then you need to concentrate on quality not convenience.

Getting the cameras to match as you shoot in a single location is important.. I often shoot across multiple locations so dont need to match.

The Canon DSLRs would not appear to be appropriate because they offer convenience not quality.

I think you are right to choose a '4k' Slog Sony camera.. as I dont follow those models I cannot advise you further.

The only other consideration.. if the light levels are reasonable.. is the BMC4k camera which is similar priced (I guess) and makes a great 10bit image to cheap media and is easy to power for extended periods with 12v and a hotswap battery.

I wonder if you need to be considering roll time, max media size and overheating all issues that come to the fore when recording in a single take.

S
 
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