FS7: B-camera: need your expert advise :)

moldcad

moldcad

Veteran
Yeah, I know - plenty of info available on-line. But what I really need is the opinion of the fellow FS7 users on this forum - so please forgive me this question, and try to answer it in a way that would help not just me, but also perhaps shed a new light on the matter so even those more advanced would benefit?

So here I go: if I wanted a B-camera for my FS7, which way to look? A video camera, or a still one? I'm sort of leaning towards the latter - but which would you recommend as an FS7 companion: Sony or Canon? Full frame or APS-C? Please consider which glass I currently have (see sig below)... I'd really appreciate a good advise (oh, and the price is a consideration, too - it cannot be much more than $1,000). TIA!

Piotr
 
I have an A7s as my B-Cam -> gets the job done, and fairly easy to match them etc. And easy on the wallet.
I don't do any stills professionally, but I do take it with me on vacation and whatnot, which isn't bad for it. Obviously not amazing @ 12mpx.

I would prefer an FS5, as no ND filters is a bit of a pain in the A7s, and it would be nice to have a smaller camera to bring out when I don't need to bring the FS7 (or when the FS7 is overkill), and to stay in 10-bit world in HD at least. Again, I don't do stills professionally at all. I would take a good look at the 1dxmk2 if you need the stills though!
 
I would absolutely recommend Sony's mirrorless line of cameras. I used an A7S with my FS7 for a while and now I use the A7SII and the A6300 and I would suggest you try the same. You said your budget was around $1,000, so you can easily make that work with the A6300 (retails at $1,000). You could also spend a tad more and get the A6500 which retails at $1,400. They both run XAVC-S, are decent in low light, are APS-C, work great with Speed Boosters, have SLog3 / S-Gamut3.Cine and are a breeze to use. Cutting them alongside the FS7 using the same picture profiles on both cameras works great. The SLog3 / S-Gamut3.Cine is a tad flatter on the mirrorless cameras, but with a small adjustment in post they can match in seconds. They are lightweight and portable and shoot dang good pictures and timelapses. The autofocus for photos works very well with adapted lenses using Metabones adapters and Speed Boosters. I highly suggest using Sony's own line of mirrorless cameras with the FS7 because they flat out work well together.
 
Joshua Milligan said:
I would absolutely recommend Sony's mirrorless line of cameras. .
Click to expand...

I dont know why but they have never had any appeal - Ive not used them but tales of rolling shutter, Slog in compressed 8bit, short battery life and odd batteries (all DSLRs have odd batteries) not to mention menues and start stop buttons that only could be created by the devil himself. (oh and micro HDMI which is ar_se)

Id say the Bcam for FS7 is..
-FS7
-Fs5
-EX1 (!)

But I guess you want small light and cheap.

Right now Im enjoying my BMC micro camera.
The 10bit 442 footage is genuinely solid (possibly more than the FS7 in some situations)
The DR is not as good
With the right plate it will run on BPU batteries or vlock.. the two options that run everthing else in my life.

S
 
Sam - actually, a BMD camera could tick many boxes for me, thanks for the idea.

You're right - I definitely need it small and cheap, but several features would be welcome:

- UHD @ 50 fps
- 10 bit Log of some kind
- ND filtering

I realize those are actually quite high demands, so I'm afraid 1,000 bucks will not do...

Piotr
-
 
I dont know which cheap cams do UHD 50p.

I wonder how BMMCC 10bit 422 upscales compared to consumer codec '4k' from an affordable '4k' handycam (or gopro!)

Frankly IMO data rate is the signifier of image quality and the BMC is up there using that metric.

Ive been 'making' 4k since the PMW F3 and external recorder, the alexa and amera 'make' 4k

With base ISO of 1000 internal ND filtering is a must. For base 200 less so - the BMC has a base of 200.

The bmc has 'film' mode which is like log but less flat and very easy to work.

S
 
BMMCC is also narrow and perfect for gimbals.

Two 1/4 threads on the bottom mean you can actually attach the camera to stuff without it rotating

The large HDMI is vastly superior to mini HDMI

S
 
Indeed part of the cost of the camera (and owning electronic lenses - something I have avoided where possible)

S
 
Last edited:
My B cam for my Fs7 is A7RII because it does far better AF job than A7SII and i don't need to shoot in poor light condition. Speedboster ultra can bring me 4k in aps-c mode for reducing noise if necessary. A7RII is the best for one man gimbal use in sony world... It is very very good for still too!
 
moldcad said:
Yeah, I know - plenty of info available on-line. But what I really need is the opinion of the fellow FS7 users on this forum - so please forgive me this question, and try to answer it in a way that would help not just me, but also perhaps shed a new light on the matter so even those more advanced would benefit?

So here I go: if I wanted a B-camera for my FS7, which way to look? A video camera, or a still one? I'm sort of leaning towards the latter - but which would you recommend as an FS7 companion: Sony or Canon? Full frame or APS-C? Please consider which glass I currently have (see sig below)... I'd really appreciate a good advise (oh, and the price is a consideration, too - it cannot be much more than $1,000). TIA!

Piotr
Click to expand...

I concur with most of the replies. I too have an A7s as my B-cam companion to my FS7 and it works great. Sony platform makes post easy and using the Odyssey 7Q+, I'm able to not only set up the little guy to match my big camera, but with the Apollo option I can record with the matching TC.
As an aside, I run the HDMI from my A7s into a Nano Flash but output it SDI into the 7Q+, thereby eliminating the unstable connection of the HDMI for long runs.
 
rudo_fr said:
My B cam for my Fs7 is A7RII because it does far better AF job than A7SII and i don't need to shoot in poor light condition. Speedboster ultra can bring me 4k in aps-c mode for reducing noise if necessary. A7RII is the best for one man gimbal use in sony world... It is very very good for still too!
Click to expand...

Could you please elaborate on 2 statements (sorry - I'm completely new to these little cams):

- is A7R II worse low-light performer than A7s II?
- what exactly do you mean by "Speedboster ultra can bring me 4k in aps-c mode for reducing noise if necessary"?

Thanks!

Piotr
 
Thanks guys for the comments to my inquiry; I'll probably go with one of those Sony Alphas (probably the a6300/6500), for all the reasons mentioned here, including the price point. But let me ask this question (I'd say an obvious one, as all the DSLR filming hype started with one of them) - if I wanted full-frame, after all:

- why not a Canon (say the 5D Mark IV)?

And another question (I guess I got spoiled by XAVC-I and Resolve grading in 10bit; somehow intercutting it with interframe XAVC-S in 8 bits doesn't appeal to me):

- with the A6300, would i be able to get 10bit 4K if I added say the Inferno to my arsenal? Not necessarily for RAW, but DNxHR HQX?

Please be as specific as it takes for somebody who never filmed with a DSLR to comprehend :)

Piotr
 
Last edited:
Ill tell you my experience of the 5dmk2

It was clearly too aliased to shoot buildings/forests - it was a joke compared to the FS100 (now there is a plan.. they are $500 now?)

The real problems came with..

-wobbly HDMI would cut the shot - AND THAT MEANT LOST SHOTS.
-sound aquisition/recorders

These things made the camera impossible to take on professional gigs as an A camera

But as a Bcam a DSLR is potentially a great plan.

In my office my chum is a Canon stills shooter.. and I recomend he gets a canon DSLR with a flip out screen for filming because it talks to his lenses and he knows the interface.

most important spec? flip out screen!

And the canon AF is fantastic. And some of them hack and do some form of raw.

Really it depends on what you want and works for your business - how serious are you about image quality.. for 'serious' I would want a minimum of 10bit

But I do jobs with the stills guy at the location too.. and if he can get me a shot on his canon DSLR that I cannot get (maybe im at the other side of the arena) then.. it goes in the edit because content is king.

If we can get a shot with a goPro it goes in the edit because content is king

If we get a shot with the GH4 left rolling clamped to a speaker tower we use it because content is king.

My recent edits have all cameras, Nikon DSLR, Phantom/Osmo thing, gopro, EX1, Betacam SD.. whatever got the shot.. as an editor I DO NOT CARE.

But for serious work like an architecture job or narrative fiction the Canon would likely not make the cut - but neither would a Sony Mirrorless.

I would be splitting 'ease/content' where a great AF canon DSLR could be the best.. or 'quality' where really you need a 10bit camera maybe a BMC 2.5k or whatever or mini ursa.. or the cheapest.. the BMC micro.

If I owned a 16-35 Id probably get a Canon DSLR with the fancy AF.

S

Can you spot the cameras?
Betacam, Nikon D700 , Phantom, FS7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE5xhIanang
Fs7, EX1, gopro3, Canon Sure shot (dont know the model) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfEQ1tSb1L8
 
Last edited:
morgan_moore said:
If I owned a 16-35 Id probably get a Canon DSLR with the fancy AF.
Click to expand...

Sam - that's part of my point: if I buy a cheapish Sony (like the A6300), I'd need to also weigh in the cost of another Speed Booster (and I do have the Canon 16-35 plus some others). So the 5D mark IV is not THAT much more expensive anymore (plus its price will probably drop by the time I'm ready to buy). Especially when compared with the A7S/A7R II..

On the other hand: with S-log3/S-gamut3.Cine on my FS7, I'm getting great results grading in Resolve - with color science set to RCM, and perfect normalization from S-Log3/S-Gamut3.Cine to Rec.2020/BT.2084. If I wanted to intercut with the Canon footage in the same project, I'd need to give up RCM and start using LUTs instead... Not necessary with those little Sonys.

And last but not least: would I gain any IQ if I recorded externally from the 5D?

Piotr
 
Yes the Mk IV

No log output
No 4k output
Cropped 4k mode
No focus peaking
No focus magnification while recording
High frame rates at 720p only


Great stills and timelapse camera. Not a great video camera.

A used C100 mk2



If you can wait and don't want to spend Sony A7sII money (A7rIII due to be announced in the new year!) or A6500 money then go for a Lumix GH5 that will be 10-bit 4k, have log and will be about half the price of the A7.
 
Thanks Ben - those are really important disadvantages, didn't realize them!

So back to the choice between the A6300 vs. full-frame (A7S or A7R): PQ and ergonomics-wise, which would you advise (the obvious differences related to FF vs. APS-C aside)?

Piotr
 
I've been using the a6300 as a b-cam for the past couple of months.

What I like about it, is that it is a small camera that can produce some cracking 4K shots and it is nice to just pick it up and grab some b-roll when I don't want the big FS7 getting in people's faces, the AF is pretty quick too. It works really well with the Sony 18-105 f4 lens.

What I don't like about it is that it's prone to the rolling shutter wobble and that it does occasionally overheat (in 4K).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top