B-CAM for 150

Ridolph said:
I'm currently thinking about this. I don't want an HMC-40, as I shoot mostly indoors with questionable lighting and clearly its not really a comparable camera for this purpose. I'm leaning towards a TM-300 (or 350 if I import), which has good low light. Anyone try to match these two?
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Really, that's sort of nutty. A TM-300 isn't going to outperform an HMC40 in low light!!!

Unless I'm utterly mistaken, the TM-300 and HMC40 use exactly the same imaging block (although the better CMOS chips coming off the assembly line probably get cherry-picked and go into HMC40s). The TM-300 is the consumer version, with a lot less features than the HMC40.
 
Frankly, I wouldn't even consider purchasing a TM300. It only records 2 flavors of video (1080i60 and 1080p24 - as opposed to the HMC40 offering recording in any common HD flavor there is), doesn't have nearly as nice manual control as an HMC40, and really doesn't cost much less, when you factor in all the freebies given away with HMC40s right now. The ONLY thing a TM300 will give you (aside from a lot less) that an HMC40 won't, is built-in flash memory (which I guess is a minor plus).

Oh yeah, you get a 90 day warranty with the TM300 - 3 years with the HMC40.
 
ggrantly said:
Thanks for all of the responses.

This is a tough question. Two 150s is the right answer for a two cam shoot. But if you have two identical cams, you get the strengths of both but also the weaknesses of both for twice the price.

Grant
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And what are the weaknesses of the HMC150?

Especially would like to know what you think the hmc40 and 300 can do better. I am thinking nothing.

I think you are saying that price is the weakest thing about a 150.... in reality its still one of the best options for the $$$.
 
With good light, the HMC40 produces a notably sharper image than the HMC150. There's really no contest there - HMC40 is clearly superior in that regard.
 
When you get right down to it, in situations where you have control over lighting, and are shooting with an HMC150 and HMC40, the HMC40 should probably be your A cam. If you want the footage from both cameras to cut together ideally, you either need to choose your shots carefully, so as hide the relatively softer image from the HMC150, or dumb down (soften) the HMC40 footage.
 
Another when you get right down to it - The Achilles Heel of the HMC150, HVX200, etc., is reliance on close to SD resolution CCDs, heavily leveraged with pixel shifting technology, to attain HD images. As a practical matter, pixel shifting yields notably higher resolution images, but there are also practical limitations to what can be achieved with it. Pixel shifting 960x540 imaging chips is really pushing things hard. Regardless of CCD vs CMOS issues, the HMC40 is the first prosumer camera from Panasonic to actually employ high resolution imaging chips.
 
This is all going to boil down to what you are shooting...

Yeah, cmos is going to get you a sharp picture... but I personally would trade that for the reliability and realistic footage you get from 3ccd. At this point, cameras like my T1i and the hmc40 produce jello footage and bad flash representation with not great low light abilities - in event videography this is a nightmare.
 
Us folks that spend a lot of (perhaps to much) time looking at footage frame-by-frame in post, sometimes get a bit silly about CMOS rolling shutter issues. They are just WAY MORE apparent when carefully scrutinizing footage frame-by-frame, then when casually viewing in real time (while sitting in your living room, sipping a cold one.)

I've shot plenty of footage with CMOS camcorders, and just really don't have anything akin to a serious problem with rolling shutter issues.
 
MadHMC150,

Every cam will have advantages and disadvantages for certain situations. Did you ever wish you had a 20x lens like the Canons, or maybe interchangeable lenses, or P2 reliability, or dvcprohd codec, or this or that. It isn't that the 150 has many weaknesses, it's that other cams might broaden your possibilities.

But for matching, the same cam is clearly the best option.

Grant
 
Kinda...

From what my needs are, HMC150 is the best option. Its what makes $$ and keeps the clients happy. I tried the T1i (with all its marvelous lenses) and the client was not happy, now it sits in the bag on real shoots.

We are talking about a B cam here... matching footage is not fun if its not close...

I think the hmc40 (knowing its weaknesses) can be used, but again... will the clients be happy? that's all that matters...
 
Somebody mentioned using an XH-A1 as a B-cam to the HMC150, and finding it a PITA to match the footage in post. Really though, with the almost infinite ability to tweak the A1's image in camera with custom presets, for closely imitating another camera's look the A1 is awfully tough to beat (if you take full advantage of the abilities that custom presets offer you), and they're selling used for pretty close to $2K nowadays.
 
Robert M Wright said:
Somebody mentioned using an XH-A1 as a B-cam to the HMC150, and finding it a PITA to match the footage in post. Really though, with the almost infinite ability to tweak the A1's image in camera with custom presets, for closely imitating another camera's look the A1 is awfully tough to beat (if you take full advantage of the abilities that custom presets offer you), and they're selling used for pretty close to $2K nowadays.
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I think you may be referring to one of my posts as I did use the XHA1 as a B cam to the 150....

You are correct about the "tweak-ability" of the A1 in matching colors. I did a fairly decent job of that, customers always liked the results. But using two 150's is still a much simpler proposition, in terms of matching color is concerned.
But what really drove me crazy were the long render times resulting from mixing HDV and AVCHD on the same timeline, using Premiere Pro CS3 and an old Sony VAIO desktop.
But if cash is an issue, the A1 at $2,000-ish used is a good option.
 
The XH-A1 is a chameleon, but obviously two identical cameras will be easier to match up for color, and all other image attributes really (like grain, for example).

I'm not sure why mixing HDV and AVCHD on the same timeline would result in longer render times than mixing a couple AVCHD streams.
 
ParrotEyes said:
I have both, the HMC150 and the TM-300..
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Just wondering about the compatibility between batteries and chargers between the two cameras.

Can the small TM300 battery (VBG130) be charged in the HMC150 charger (VW-AD20)?

I ask this because the TM300 manual states that the camera can use all three batteries (i eVBG130. VBG260, and VBG6 cable with adapter), however the power supply with the TM300 is VSK0698 (rated 8.4V 0.65A for charging) and the HMC150 has the VW-AD20 (8.4V 1.3A for charging).

If it can charge the smaller battery, then the charging time, I imagine, would be greater reduced from the 2.5hrs in the manual.

Appreciate your help as I have been spending hours on the Panasonic site and on Google with no answers.
 
My consumer PV-GS500's battery charger is identitcal to the 150's (both interchangeable) and the smaller 150 battery works with the consumer cam, so i'm betting it's the same with the new consumer cams using similar batteries.
 
KnoxHotch said:
My consumer PV-GS500's battery charger is identitcal to the 150's (both interchangeable) and the smaller 150 battery works with the consumer cam, so i'm betting it's the same with the new consumer cams using similar batteries.
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It's interesting that the output on the charger to power the video camera is different on both chargers. It is 7.3V on the HMC150 one and 9.4V on the TM300 one. That's why I thought I better ask.
 
If the voltages are different, then definitely don't use them on opposite cameras, I've only swapped them for charging the batteries.
 
Yes I agree. So have you charged the VBG130 (tiny TM300 battery) on the VW-AD20 charger (the one that come with the HMC150) without any problems?

I am curious then if the charging times were greatly reduced since this charger has a higher current capacity?
 
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