Avoiding a confrontation with fs100 dop

J Davis

J Davis

Veteran
Next week I'm directing footage for an ad spot which mostly means wrangling models, stylists and making sure the creative gets followed as close as possible.

The budget got knocked down and the producer is bringing in her friend who is fs100 owner/operator. The shoot is high key like a Terry Richardson style lighting (example link) and because of what I have read on this forum I'm worried about expopsure and highlight rolloff.

I voiced concerns and asked about monitoring and was told he is bringing the lcd and eyepiece that comes with the unit then the producer said 'we should be fine' then told me 'stop being a dp' !!!! She's right of course as I'm not hired in that role, but unknown to her and the agency, I have a relationship with the client outside and above this as 18 months ago I shot and directed a small but important project for them as a one-man-band-freelancer and they were really happy with it.

So I really want this to go great for the client but there is sooo much out of my control, especially with this unknown dp and super ***** producer who has a rep for throwing others under the bus rather than take blame.

Anyway, to get to the point - I read somewhere to treat 90 or 95% IRE as if it were 100 then fix in post, is this a good approach?
How can I make sure the dp is adhering to this?
Will I be able to tell by looking at the fs100 lcd?


edit:
no audio thank god, no cam movement either, just on sticks and press record
 
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Leave exposure to the DoP. It's his job, not yours. Concentrate on doing your job well.

It sounds like you've already drawn up your battle lines. Don't undermine the production by using your your relationship with the client, that's unprofessional. If you're not happy working with the producer, don't take the job.

I sure hope neither the DoP or producer are a member or reader of dvxuser...
 
PM Frank Glencairn known as Postmaster, he is good with exposure related issues with the FS 100, as a side note do what I do take a notebook with you, any concerns that you are railroaded over, write it down (obviously out of sight). The dp and the producer hold responsibility for the video, let your shoulders slope and let the production weight fall off. Production value falls ultimately to the dp and producer. People are not stupid they will see how the shoot goes and the ultimate result. If said producer has a reputation let her gob and attitude dig her hole.

Your previous role has nothing to do with this production, I have been in the same boat, by acting professional on set and working to the best of your ability and zero whining, eye rolling and positive attitude you will have a crew that will work with you again (very important).

The client may even come back to you next year for follow up.

I know its hard but chin up, work hard.

Rich

PS Postmaster, Frank is really good with presets.
 
J Davis said:
Next week I'm directing footage for an ad spot which mostly means wrangling models, stylists and making sure the creative gets followed as close as possible.

The budget got knocked down and the producer is bringing in her friend who is fs100 owner/operator. The shoot is high key like a Terry Richardson style lighting (example link) and because of what I have read on this forum I'm worried about expopsure and highlight rolloff.

I voiced concerns and asked about monitoring and was told he is bringing the lcd and eyepiece that comes with the unit then the producer said 'we should be fine' then told me 'stop being a dp' !!!! She's right of course as I'm not hired in that role, but unknown to her and the agency, I have a relationship with the client outside and above this as 18 months ago I shot and directed a small but important project for them as a one-man-band-freelancer and they were really happy with it.

So I really want this to go great for the client but there is sooo much out of my control, especially with this unknown dp and super ***** producer who has a rep for throwing others under the bus rather than take blame.

Anyway, to get to the point - I read somewhere to treat 90 or 95% IRE as if it were 100 then fix in post, is this a good approach?
How can I make sure the dp is adhering to this?
Will I be able to tell by looking at the fs100 lcd?


edit:
no audio thank god, no cam movement either, just on sticks and press record
Click to expand...

Careful what you do here as if you don't get involved with the DP , they can't blame you
for any DP screw ups that may happen. But to answer your question, any halfway decent FS100
owner should be able to set zebra at 95% and also set the histogram to show the zebra point so
that it is easy to see if you have any exposure over 95%, both by the zebra stripes and by
anything in the histogram that goes over the zebra 'zone'. Hopefully they know how to use a PP,
Frank has some good one's on here, I am fond of the G-Log Ultimate PP.
 
There is NOTHING wrong with the FS100's highlight roll off. Unfortunately the public consciousness has been indelibly corrupted by some poor presets, some users not understanding how to deal with superbrights, crappy software that clips values over 100 ire or inability to read a histogram or a combination of all of the above.

Any DOP who is worth the title will be able to set up the FS100 to shoot high key without ugly highlight clipping.
 
This is super tricky because the client approached this agency a year ago because of me. (I've freelanced on and off for this agency for 6 yrs, I've know the client separately for 2. The client pays higher so I value their relationship more.) The dop from what I gather has not been in the game long.
 
Liam Hall said:
If you're not happy working with the producer, don't take the job.
Click to expand...
yes yes true true but more than black and white to any relationship. I accepted the job when it was c300 with video village, I don't know who cut the budget, no c300 no screen for me or even for MUA. I want to stay on with this agency where possible, they go through producers every year or so so hoping to ride this out

Liam Hall said:
I sure hope neither the DoP or producer are a member or reader of dvxuser...
Click to expand...
I had thought this as well and considered carefully before posting. Thanks tho!
 
Final thought before I run to get subway. I've seen people using smallHD dp4 and loupe.

Is this good?

I can drop my own money to buy gear and then reuse or resell.
 
I hear you J. Tread carefully, particularly if the producer is a snake - sorry I can't help you with your FS100 exposure question, but I can recommend you keep hitting the smile and wave button:)
 
J Davis said:
This is super tricky because the client approached this agency a year ago because of me. (I've freelanced on and off for this agency for 6 yrs, I've know the client separately for 2. The client pays higher so I value their relationship more.) The dop from what I gather has not been in the game long.
Click to expand...

difficult position.

I think I were you I would be peering over the shoulder of the DoP, I am a control freak though and old enough not to worry about stepping on toes. I'd want my relationship with my client to remain intact over worrying about the sensibilities of a camera op.

Not in the game long and calling him/herself a DP! The title Cinematographer and DoP are utterly meaningless nowadays because every joe blow with a half decent camera uses the label.
 
alaskacameradude said:
Careful what you do here as if you don't get involved with the DP, they can't blame you for any DP screw ups that may happen.
Click to expand...

Oh they can and they will. I've been there. Directing a multi-camera shoot that had a DP...one of the camera ops leaves his ND filter on shooting indoors. The DP sees the footage, okays it. Tells me nothing. Guess who gets the blame?

Me.

You are the director. You take the blame period. You need to CYA however that needs to be, because if your burgeoning DP royally screws up exposure, you will take the blame for it, trust me. Don't be a dick about it, but make sure that you review footage, point out any issues, and get your opinion on the content in writing as much as possible.
 
If you're the director, talk to the DP about it. You never know he/she might be on these forums or well aware of exposing for their camera. Explain your concern and why not do a short test.

But in general, expose for the highlights you want to keep, the shadows on the 100 are very detailed

cheers
paul
 
thanks and following everyone's comments carefully, hope to meet dp and producer face to face later today or tomorrow.
no time for tests nor can I get the HMI's and studio space in front of the dude with the cam before the day of

can anyone advice on dp4 with loup?
does it give me ire readout or waveform?
can i run dp4 on extended cable away from cam? (I want to bring it closer to the MUA)
 
thx gary, if I want to buy some device that would alert me if we go over 95% (or is it 90%) IRE what should I buy?

also is it 90 or 95 ? I can;t remember as I read Rick's(?) thread eon's ago
 
Did I hear my name? I'll be honest I don't look at IRE when I shoot as I a very non-traditionalist. What I did do is spend a lot of time shooting with the FS100 and then looking at the results. The single biggest piece of advice I can give you is use Frank's presets. He has two different ones, one for inside and one for outside, and you really need to use each one in each of those settings and not try and do it by using one and using the white balance.

The highlight roll-off has been SIGNIFICANTLY improved by Frank's presets. I've tested them in a HUGE range of material and our new mini series which drops soon was shot with the FS100 and 7D and we never ran into any HL issues anymore. However, using the factory settings you WILL possibly get HL issues. Now, on EXTREME spatial frequency the only problem that remains is that the encoder doesn't do a great job at the boundary between them. It gets a little blocky if you have a lot of dark surrounding something that is VERY bright. But, to be honest, I don't notice it.

The reason I've kept my FS100 is that with these settings, I've been VERY happy with the results. The FS100 definitely doesn't have as much wiggle room in the settings as other cameras, but it's very capable. The only two things that still frustrate me with it is lens mount and ND. I have the metabones and it works okay, just not great on my Sigma 30mm which I love.
 
Oh, uh - sounds like a recipe for disaster.

By all means Davis - as a director you need a monitor. Period.
I would suggest the TVLogic VFM-056W (HDMI) or - even better the VFM-056WP, the later comes with HDMI and 3G SDI, so it may survive your next 4 cameras.
Both give you false color, best peaking I ever saw and - most important - a proper waveform and vectorscope.

Regarding the PP, I would suggest to use my G-LOG Ultimate for that. The DP will have a hard time to screw up the shot with that, it's almost bullet proof.
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com...imate-1-0-picture-profile-for-the-sony-fs100/

If you need extra room to play with in post (and from your description, chances are you gonna need that), rent a Samurai or Ninja and record in ProRes - can make a big difference when you really have to push the material in post.

If you need more help, drop me a line.

Frank
 
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Let me put it to you this way, Frank's color profiles work so well that we have a thanks in the credits for our next video we are releasing! :) I cannot stress how much easier using his presets helps in getting the most out of your FS100. Using a poor preset, which I find the built in ones or any of the ones I created, generated results I was NOT happy with.

It sounds like the camera is out of your control. I shoot without an extra LCD now because I KNOW the FS100 like the back of my hand. And the histogram is my friend.

Sounds like the biggest issue you face is not having confidence in the shooter and their use of the FS100. If I were in your position, I'd want to talk to the shooter and gauge how well they know their camera. Maybe they are good with it?!? I'd also say, ask to see some work they've shot with the camera so you can get an idea of how they shoot. This way, you can see what to expect of their processed files and have an idea of how their eye is with the things you are worried about. If I were in your position, that's what I would do.

When my name is attached to something, I ask LOTS of questions. I too want the people I am working with to succeed, and any ONE person in the chain can destroy the entire project if they are not capable.
 
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