Avatar - James Cameron Returns! (Spoilers in thread, obviously!)

Batutta said:
True. It's like complaining that chefs "trick us" into liking their food because they know humans love salt and fat...I think when you get into these kind of criticisms you dance on the edge of complaining that a film is too manipulative, ignoring the fact that all art is manipulation. The purpose of any artistic enterprise is making other people see something from your point of view, and filmmaking by its very nature is probably the most manipulative of all forms. You may object to the methods, and that's what this guy is mostly complaining about, but he nearly goes over the edge toward implicating the wrongness of any form of audience manipulation. The most successful artists are the ones who manipulate us the most skillfully, and anyone who is uncomfortable with the whole concept of manipulation probably has no business either watching films or being a filmmaker.
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Yes and no. There is also such a thing as pandering. Which is where the artist shows no discipline, and uses nothing BUT manipulation. Your chef analogy is right on. Because a GOOD chef will not just give you salt and fat. That's what McDonald's does.

But the thing is, it's just not necessary. I'll use the "Army guy" as an example:

The Matrix(Another big popcorn movie) managed to present one of the most interesting bad guys in a long time in Agent Smith. And that movie made a lot of money too...but the filmmakers made the choice to go beyond the cliche, to give him some manner of dimension. Or they probably just left it up to the actor and got out of his way. Which I'm sure would have been a better choice in Avatar's case as well, considering how great that actor is. Did they have to? Would they have made as much money with a cliche? Who knows? But for whatever reason, the character was more important to them than a one-dimensional pawn whose purpose was to herd us down one road of feeling. We even liked Agent Smith. And to a degree, we could kind of see where he was coming from.. He WANTED something on a personal level. We may not have rooted for him, but we could empathize with him. Army Dude had nothing. Just barking bad lines and riding around with that big stupid knife.

Do you think Avatar would have been any less successful if the Army dude had had as much dimension as Agent Smith? It might not have been MORE successful, but I think that's the point. I think Cameron learned with Titanic that characters just don't matter to the bottom line, so why bother with them?

Some others where the bad guy could have been terrible but wasn't:
-Hans from Die Hard
-Roy Batty
-The Mexican dudes in Treasure of the Sierra Madre
-Dr EVIL!!!!! For God's sake!*

All of these were better than they could have been because the directors had some interest in them as characters, not just as manipulation tools. Just as a good chef has interest in the food as food, and not just as a means of stripping you of your money.

That's what McDonald's does.


* Dr. Evil is pushing it, I know.
 
So I might have this picture as the background on my Home Theater PC (PC connected to my HDTV) at home...



Ok, I do. I'm a fan.

Anyway...

As I walked close by the TV the other day, I noticed something interesting.

Something that either really impresses me about the amount of detail and work that the modelers/coders put into the film. To include so detailed physics, including what we commonly consider "errors" and "bad", speaks very highly of the workmanship.


Or it's all real. :eek: :cheesy:


Either way, check it out:
AvatarCA1.jpg



(For those of you who aren't sure what you are looking at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration)

- Mikko
 
Mark Harris said:
Yes and no. There is also such a thing as pandering. Which is where the artist shows no discipline, and uses nothing BUT manipulation. Your chef analogy is right on. Because a GOOD chef will not just give you salt and fat. That's what McDonald's does.
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I did say, "you may object to the methods", and yes, McDonald's methods are the cheapest and the easiest. But ask any chef and they'll tell you almost anything you eat at a restaurant has at at least of stick of butter in it.
 
2.55 billion. Avatar has made more in just foreign coin (1.83b) than Titanic made in domestic and worldwide combined.
 
Reminds me of the kill-myslef-so-as-to-be-reincarnated-as-a-Na'vi types.

What makes them so sure they'll come back as Na'vi? Seems the odds are even they'll find themselves reincarnated as prawns a la District 9...
 
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Yeah. I think I've watched his 'Phantom Menace' treatment three or four times and it just keeps getting more hysterical. His other reviews are a hoot, too.
 
Sad Max said:
Yeah. I think I've watched his 'Phantom Menace' treatment three or four times and it just keeps getting more hysterical. His other reviews are a hoot, too.
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Must admit I watched all 7 bits of his Phantom Menace vid. Funny stuff (in a MST3K kinda way)...but also pretty damn insightful. It's worth viewing alone for the clip of Lucas before he sold his creative soul and the words that must now haunt him (or should, anyways).
 
That's what makes his stuff (cheerleaders-in-the-basement guy, not Lucas) so much fun to watch. It's really intelligent criticism presented as farce.
 
Sad Max said:
That's what makes his stuff (cheerleaders-in-the-basement guy, not Lucas) so much fun to watch. It's really intelligent criticism presented as farce.
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I was laughing so hard I was nearly crying as I watched the Avatar and Phantom Menace reviews this guy did; The whole prose of this serial killer/film reviewer character is a better film reviewer than those snobish bores who write for the news columns, its pure genius!
 
Ha ha, that dudes reviews are hilarious. A lot of work in them too.

**** just watched the Star Wars ep 1 part 1, $#%ing hilarious! Ewan McDonald! Man I'm gonna waste the next hour or two watching more of these.

**** Still laughing
 
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congrants to Sad Max for that oscar (even if it wasn't given to you directly, all the art department made it possible)!
 
The review guy's brilliant, but the Avatar review 'aint nothing like the Phantom Menace reviews... He's trying to do the same thing but his points are weak because the things he credits to his own elevated awareness should be obvious to everybody. He says the redneck hillbillies in the marine briefing were a subliminal message... subliminal?... the guys in the front row that we all looked at directly?

My problem with THIS review is that he explains the obvious... repeatedly. The Phantom Menace review is actually INSIGHTFUL...

Yes... I get it... the story wouldn't have worked if the blue chick wasn't attractive. Neither would 95% of the other love stories out there.

I agree on the rest however... except that it's no brilliant observation... you could do a million reviews like this... with film 101 lessons like "make the audience hate the villain"... jeez... how many movies have something as decisive as a gang rape... or horrible murder... early on?

This guy didn't like the movie... but imparts some jealousy or something in this review... making a case that the movie was ego driven... and that some of the proceeds should be given away. It's the standard "greedy bastard has too much money" viewpoint.

The rest of the review is pretty good... but if you take away a few of the OBVIOUS points about the movie... then you'd be left with a 5 minute version of this 20 minute video... with plenty of time for jokes.


Congrats SM... the movie was very well done visually... that's for damn sure.
 
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