AC130: Auto focus epic failure II

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ELN614

Well-known member
I am sure you recall my old post.
Camera 130... not 130A
these clips are from last Fall's crop of bad focus.
One time it took around 30 seconds for it to find it's focus.
Do you think 30 seconds is acceptable?
All footage was shot in auto focus auto exposure. Shutter was set to around 1/250 (I can't recall but it wasn't 1/60)
 
Hi ELN614,

I thought most of these focus problems are reasonable when you look at the situations.

The 1st long delay was probably accentuated when you zoomed in quickly before the camera had achieved focus in the wide shot, thus confusing it even further.

The camera NEEDS light to focus on, and I'll think you'll find that every time your dark horse runs past a bright patch of crop or a bright sky or other background, the camera changes its focus momentarily to that bright area.

To be expected really.

Yesterday I used the latest Sony AX 100 (which has excellent auto focus), at 5 dance concerts, but every time the stage went to black between items the auto focus returned to 0.1 metres, and took at least 10 - 15 secs to find focus, meaning I had to remember to switch back to manual everytime before the lights went out to save the setting for the next act!

Cheers,

Vaughan
 
I think that was the main reason I got rid of mine. I had two 130's and still had the HMC80's which focussed quickly and accurately every time yet both the 130's seem to lose the plot totally! At weddings I just couldn't afford to wait as things happen all the time and often you just had to stay on full auto. Mine seemed pretty good on manual focus I must admit Even my Sony EA-50's are a little slow in low light to focus but nothing l5 secs ... Do you still have the 130 ELN614???
 
Chris, Me too, my old Panasonic (DVC30 and DVX100) NEVER had a problem focusing with this EXACT kind of shoot. Sad part is this is outside in full sun with very distinct contrast. I plan to send it in for repair as soon as I sell my HM700 and pickup a 160A.
Sad part is when the subject is out of focus, so is EVERYTHING else. It's not like it's focusing on something else in the field of vision. Then the other part I shoot so close to f/8.. when the subject is in focus - so is everything else. (one benefit of a small chip)
Vaughan, You feel this is very acceptable... interested in a purchasing a used video camera that can focus some of the time???
 
Hi ELN614, great to hear from you again. You may recall I had an issue with my 160A and had a new lens/servo assy fitted. It was much better but still occasionally a bit unpredictable. (that was on the longest thread about focus in the history of mankind- we should have got an endurance medal for that one! )

I found that when using auto it was best to use the zone/function square and keep the image within that- this reduces the area that the camera is trying to focus on- almost like a spot meter for focus- it certainly increases the odds of nailing focus.
Cheers!
Rod
 
[QUOTEVaughan, You feel this is very acceptable... interested in a purchasing a used video camera that can focus some of the time???][/QUOTE]

Well, sorry, no! We have two of them, and doing weddings, and stage shows and dance concerts mainly on manual they have been fine! Often use auto to get the range and then flick o manual to maintain it.

Just got used to it I guess!

Cheers,

Vaughan
 
Manual settings work best with this camera. Takes practice in manual mode. This is the best camera (AVCHD )in the price range,even with some new cameras being introduced.
 
I've settled on using the EVF with focus-in-red for fast moving stuff, and always using the manfrotto controller whether on sticks or not. For shoulder mounting, I attach the controller by the handgrip near my fingertip.

As long as you remember which way is far and which is near and try to anticipate movement, with a little practice you'll be better than any AF video camera I've ever tried. I really have no focus issues this way, and I don't lose all the shots that even a "good" AF camera would miss. I think it goes with the territory - I've shot a lot of hours on the DVX and the HMC and pretty quickly gave up on AF with both.
 
i would hate to use this at a football game.
i had 3 people filming with a ac90 and 36 games each and never had 1 focus issue.
put it on af so they had 1 less thing to worry about considering i was teaching them a different way to film the games.
i use an ex-1 and had 1 focus issue for the year,but that was my error of doing a snap zoom along with quick camera movement.
i would cry if i was getting focus issues like the op.
for me af is a must especially when i have to ask the wife to film a day for me because someone called in sick 2 hours before kick off.
 
Bon said:
i would hate to use this at a football game.
i had 3 people filming with a ac90 and 36 games each and never had 1 focus issue.
put it on af so they had 1 less thing to worry about considering i was teaching them a different way to film the games.
i use an ex-1 and had 1 focus issue for the year,but that was my error of doing a snap zoom along with quick camera movement.
i would cry if i was getting focus issues like the op.
for me af is a must especially when i have to ask the wife to film a day for me because someone called in sick 2 hours before kick off.
Click to expand...

Well, some of the perspective here is professional use. I'd hate to shoot a paying job with an AC-90, seriously. I've handled one, shot one, considered one as a b-cam. Nuh uh, but I've recommended them to consumers who want something a little higher-end. But a consumer doesn't really need a 130 or a 160, and they're not going to be very happy with it if they don't want to learn some deeper skills.

But I'd hate to teach a soccer mom how to focus, too.

I use AF to quickly set an initial focus point on a crane or steadicam, but that's about it for motion work.
 
Using AF for anything just makes me cringe. That being said it seems that something like an AC-130 should have at least slightly better AF than what was shown by the OP. If the AF is so poor they shouldn't even have it as a feature.

I learned to shoot using ENG cameras which had no AF feature at all. You pulled your own focus or you were S.O.L. :)
 
Well, there have been some questions about the OP's shot choice. I've fiddled with the AF on the 130 out of curiosity, but I've never used AF for anything but stills.

I've seen consumers cams that do some reasonable AF, but professional cameras with wide zoom range? That's a lot of heavy glass to be torquing around.

And as far as sports goes... I've got a friend who runs a camera for MLB network games. Ain't using no AF...
 
My first cameras were all ENG cameras with no Auto Focus. I typically didn't need to adjust the focus on this type of shoot, but the 130 lens is completely different and requires adjustment in order to keep a focused image. The type of shooting I am doing would not work on manual. I also tried to do manual iris and that is, too, a nightmare.
Shooting a horse, on the loose, and always keeping it in frame when it's moving (in a proper gate) is a small challenge but once you try to focus all at the same time, makes it next to impossible. (without losing your shot) I am constantly zooming in or out and panning & tilting (to keep it tightly framed). If I am looking for focus and get my hand back on the lens.. I am liable to lose my shot. and losing a shot can be really bad if the client says I want that 'pass' on the final video.
Suggestion to critics: try shooting one football player (with camera by the sideline) and keep him, and only him, in the frame (head to toe with little to no extra headroom) I suspect you'll come back and say it is tough to keep him completely framed and not screw up your framing while your playing with the focus. By the way don't forget your hand will have to be on the lens the whole time -- just image the arm/ hand fatigue after the first of 4 hours. If you don't keep your hand on the lens the whole time, good luck getting your hand on the focus ring and adjust the focus in time and not to lose your shot, at some point.
AGAIN DVC30 never had this focus problem.
And Michael, every MLB game camera has focus demand on the handle and it is super easy to focus. I have shot a lot using a studio camera and focusing is a dream-- as should a 100k camera setup should be. have him pick up the 130 and I am sure he'll say the 130 is day and night to a studio camera setup.
 
Since the 160 and the 130 virtually have the same body surely getting rid of the 130 and getting a 160 would take you back to square one again?? Walter was mentioning a short while back that his 160 was inaccurate even measuring distance and showed readings that were a long way out. On a shoot like this with horses thundering down a narrow corridor you really have two options ... shoot it super wide so everything is in focus (which is not what is needed) or get a camera with a better AF. You could always buy an old DVC30 and then strap a Ninja on it ... Sorry, but I'm just not impressed at all with the AC series they are simply nothing like AVC or HMC series cameras and almost appear to have come from another factory ... so much changed on them for the worse and I'm not biased either ... I grew up with Panasonic and used them for over 20 years too . Sadly I will wait and see if they come out with something a LOT better before buying
 
Michael Carter said:
Well, some of the perspective here is professional use. I'd hate to shoot a paying job with an AC-90, seriously. I've handled one, shot one, considered one as a b-cam. Nuh uh, but I've recommended them to consumers who want something a little higher-end. But a consumer doesn't really need a 130 or a 160, and they're not going to be very happy with it if they don't want to learn some deeper skills.

But I'd hate to teach a soccer mom how to focus, too.

I use AF to quickly set an initial focus point on a crane or steadicam, but that's about it for motion work.
Click to expand...

professional perspective,wtf.
my no.1 rule is do not anticipate where the action will be.
always leads to unnecessary camera movement and mistakes,especially on misdirection plays.
shudder to think how many plays you would bite on because you had to anticipate action so you could manually focus with focus assist tools.

i have 3 rules they need to follow when filming each play.
this is what is important to me and my clients.
the easiest way for me to get what i want from my operators consistently is for them to use af using evf on a monopod.
after 151 football games we filmed last year i saw no focus issues except 1 time which was due to camera motion error.
at some grounds we don't have great spots to set up and have to use very tight spots to film from, twisting our bodies in a variety of different positions.


i made my compromise and use a formula that i believe works and i value different skills higher than mf for football.
i have hired and fired enough so called professional videographers to know what needs to be the priority.
i don't know what your soccer mom comment is about.

but here are a couple of games for you to tear apart that the coaches get a few hours after the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cLyqDFGE8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FUrd5usntU
 
Sorry to be a bit late to the party here.
I used to shoot soccer games with three cams: an HMC 150 on a crane at the 50 yard line, plus another 150 manned by my wife on full auto atone goal, and my AC160 at the opposite goal locked down, unmanned and pre-set on manual focus to capture the action if / when a goal was attempted. Worked quite well that way!
The 160 was used in that fashion because experience showed its AF was not fast enough to be the center cam. The 150's were not a problem in AF mode while shooting soccer except sometimes that 13X lens seemed a bit short.
Now the 160 seems to have developed a back focus issue in manual. When I shoot outdoor concerts where the lighting is admittedly "mixed" at best, I cannot get sharp focus. Just took it to Panasonic service in Hollywood, they are very good people to work with. They're going to fix the back focus issue under warranty, and upgrade to a 160A. Hopefully that will resolve most of my focus related issues.
 
If you guys think our cameras are deficient using auto focus, I tried the Sony HVR NX 3. Yikes! Slow focus. Same with the 4k Sony Ax-100........ Same as the CX 900 , which is 2K, but 4K setting.
 
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