Audio Post Production Tutorials

Glad someone is taking this on.

I do have 2 things to add/change. First, as a post production sound guy, I would never want H264 codec QuickTime's delivered since they are inter-frame codecs. I'd rather have something like DV codec or Motion JPEG A codec as they are intra-frame codec. Scrubbing H264 video in Pro Tools can get a little screwy on large mix sessions with tons of automation. If size is an issue, then H264 with keyframes set to ALL is okay but not great. Also, do not covert the frame rate upon export. You might have mentioned this already but leave it at it's current frame rate.

Along with the leader and tail pop, I would also put a TC burn at the top left of the picture as well as a Feet+Frame burn at the top right of the picture should any change notes come back for picture changes.

For OMF/AAF export, use Automatic Duck. The Field Production Workflow in Pro Tools can be used with this, and it's even more user friendly when exporting from a Media Composer system.
 
As a tutorial, I'm not sure how much this really gives folks in terms of prepping a FCP project for transfer to ProTools. If you're dealing only with a single video clip with stereo audio, that's a lot of work for something that could be done quickly in Compressor or MPEG StreamClip.

You added a leader and tail, but no audio... where are the tone pops? The visual 2-pop and tail pop don't really matter without the tone.

I'd wager that most NLE projects have more than two tracks of audio, and this is important to note as OMF and AAF export come into play here. The one thing that bothers me the most about getting projects from other editors when I am in a ProTools session is disorganization. I cannot tell you how many post sessions I've worked where the editor has let audio regions fall into the timeline wherever the fates decide, and the ProTools session opens with a mess of sound. I have had to spend countless hours simply reorganizing the audio so that I can move forward with the work I was actually hired to do.

Even if you've edited your own project in FCP (or any other NLE that exports OMF or AAF files) and will be doing your own audio post in PT, organization during the edit is crucial. VO/Narration on A1. On-cam dialog on A2, A3, and A4. Nats on A5 and A6. SFX on A7/A8. Stereo sound beds on A9/A10. Music on A11/A12. There can certainly be many more audio tracks, but this is just a sample layout that gives a general idea of how to organize.

When exporting the OMF or AAF, it's important to note a few settings. First, handles are important. At least 3 seconds on each end. This gives the ProTools editor room to work with cross-fades (and I've even been able to pull enough "room tone" out of pauses within the handles to cover up minor flaws in important dialog, or to smooth dialog edits). As for including cross-fades and volume automation (or, "levels"), a lot of folks say yes. This gives the PT editor a starting place as far as knowing how the picture editor/producer/director wanted the mix to sound. Personally, I like to start from scratch on my own projects, so when I'm moving my audio from FCP to PT I ignore all of that. If you're sending out to ProTools and some one else will be doing the audio post, check with him/her about this.

As for exporting the video, there's no need to export the audio with the video for PT. Further, from my experience with FCP, exporting using QT Conversion is a clunky process. I always export a self-contained FCP Movie at current project settings (includes frame rate, which I set in my PT session to match the FCP project). Any conversion for a PT reference movie is done in Compressor or MPEG StreamClip.

The BITC that Ryan mentioned is helpful, but also not necessary these days on smaller projects. For features, yes, and especially if doing audio post for another editor. If editing your own indie projects it isn't crucial... especially with the 2-pop in place (video and audio).

You've got an okay start, but there's so much more involved within the NLE that impacts production downstream.
 
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I agree with Alex here. If it's a short video or even a spot, then TC burns don't really matter. However, I do find it helpful to have the TC there in case the client needs a frame of reference. It's a lot easier than shuttling through mm:ss field which may or may not match.

I think what everyone needs is a video on how to maintain metadata during production and thru post production. Some of the Avid folks were supposed to make this, but I don't think they ever completed it...
 
ryanjf said:
Glad someone is taking this on.

I do have 2 things to add/change. First, as a post production sound guy, I would never want H264 codec QuickTime's delivered since they are inter-frame codecs. I'd rather have something like DV codec or Motion JPEG A codec as they are intra-frame codec. Scrubbing H264 video in Pro Tools can get a little screwy on large mix sessions with tons of automation. If size is an issue, then H264 with keyframes set to ALL is okay but not great. Also, do not covert the frame rate upon export. You might have mentioned this already but leave it at it's current frame rate.

Along with the leader and tail pop, I would also put a TC burn at the top left of the picture as well as a Feet+Frame burn at the top right of the picture should any change notes come back for picture changes.

For OMF/AAF export, use Automatic Duck. The Field Production Workflow in Pro Tools can be used with this, and it's even more user friendly when exporting from a Media Composer system.
Click to expand...

thanks for the input and suggestions. I will make another video for this and add what you have mentioned.

Alex H. said:
As a tutorial, I'm not sure how much this really gives folks in terms of prepping a FCP project for transfer to ProTools. If you're dealing only with a single video clip with stereo audio, that's a lot of work for something that could be done quickly in Compressor or MPEG StreamClip.

You added a leader and tail, but no audio... where are the tone pops? The visual 2-pop and tail pop don't really matter without the tone.

I'd wager that most NLE projects have more than two tracks of audio, and this is important to note as OMF and AAF export come into play here. The one thing that bothers me the most about getting projects from other editors when I am in a ProTools session is disorganization. I cannot tell you how many post sessions I've worked where the editor has let audio regions fall into the timeline wherever the fates decide, and the ProTools session opens with a mess of sound. I have had to spend countless hours simply reorganizing the audio so that I can move forward with the work I was actually hired to do.

Even if you've edited your own project in FCP (or any other NLE that exports OMF or AAF files) and will be doing your own audio post in PT, organization during the edit is crucial. VO/Narration on A1. On-cam dialog on A2, A3, and A4. Nats on A5 and A6. SFX on A7/A8. Stereo sound beds on A9/A10. Music on A11/A12. There can certainly be many more audio tracks, but this is just a sample layout that gives a general idea of how to organize.

As for exporting the video, there's no need to export the audio with the video for PT. Further, from my experience with FCP, exporting using QT Conversion is a clunky process. I always export a FCP Movie at current project settings (includes frame rate, which I set in my PT session to match the FCP project). Any conversion for a PT reference movie is done in Compressor or MPEG StreamClip.

The BITC that Ryan mentioned is helpful, but also not necessary these days on smaller projects. For features, yes, and especially if doing audio post for another editor. If editing your own indie projects it isn't crucial... especially with the 2-pop in place (video and audio).

You've got an okay start, but there's so much more involved within the NLE that impacts production downstream.
Click to expand...

the 2pop and tail pop I'm going to add in pro tools. I am not a video guy or editor by any means and this was just a video on how to convert and get the video file ready to be imported in protools. I do appreciate the info you have provided as well and will talk about the importance of the editor properly organizing the audio in the remake of this video.

if you guys have any more suggestions on material I should add/ improve on please post them and I'll get started.
 
gumby1220 said:
the 2pop and tail pop I'm going to add in pro tools.
Click to expand...

These need to be added in the NLE. There's no point to adding them in ProTools if it gets knocked out of sync before coming into ProTools... and I've gotten sessions before that came in out of sync.
 
Typically, the 2pop will come from the editor in FCP or MC.

I think it's important to note what type of show your tutorials apply to: is it for features or shorts or spots?

You might also want to mention metadata. Now this is important depending on if the show is a feature or a spot (where it doesn't matter too much). In features and longer shorts, metadata needs to be maintained and accurate throughout the entire production and post production process. Keep in mind that FCP does NOT preserve the metadata when exporting the OMF natively. You need to download third party software - Automatic Duck (it's free now) - to make this happen and make the exports referenced OMFs/AAFs. Embedded OMFs/AAFs strip metadata.

Take a look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz9e9LuIdXU&feature=player_embedded

Without proper metadata, this beautiful workflow will not work.
 
Alex H. said:
These need to be added in the NLE. There's no point to adding them in ProTools if it gets knocked out of sync before coming into ProTools... and I've gotten sessions before that came in out of sync.
Click to expand...
completely makes sense will definitely add that.
 
gumby1220 said:
completely makes sense will definitely add that.
Click to expand...

It actually needs to be included with the video clips of the leader and tail. When those are dragged from the browser to the timeline, they should have video and audio.
 
ryanjf said:
Typically, the 2pop will come from the editor in FCP or MC.

I think it's important to note what type of show your tutorials apply to: is it for features or shorts or spots?

You might also want to mention metadata. Now this is important depending on if the show is a feature or a spot (where it doesn't matter too much). In features and longer shorts, metadata needs to be maintained and accurate throughout the entire production and post production process. Keep in mind that FCP does NOT preserve the metadata when exporting the OMF natively. You need to download third party software - Automatic Duck (it's free now) - to make this happen and make the exports referenced OMFs/AAFs. Embedded OMFs/AAFs strip metadata.

Take a look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz9e9LuIdXU&feature=player_embedded

Without proper metadata, this beautiful workflow will not work.
Click to expand...
ok thanks had no clue that it was free now. downloaded it and will include this in the video as well.

Alex H. said:
It actually needs to be included with the video clips of the leader and tail. When those are dragged from the browser to the timeline, they should have video and audio.
Click to expand...
will add it to the file or find one that has them already synced.

Have to say thank you guys for the information and suggestions. it is helping alot and I do want these tutorials to be as informative and as accurate as possible.
 
got it thanks. will start making the updated video on this here shortly. Again thank you both, you guys have been a big help.

Alex H. I apologize if I was a bit naive at first, but video was more based on just getting the video ready more to do sound design then anything else audio and sync didn't really have a necessity until creating sounds in protools. I do now realize that film editors will be watching this and that the mentioned information by you and ryanjf is necessary and should be a common practice for editors no matter the size of the film. I hope I haven't come off as having an attitude or anything because I completely get what you guys are saying and am making a video that addresses all the suggestions you both have made. Was simply letting you know my reasoning behind my decisions in the video. Again I hope I don't come off as rude or with an attitude as this is not the case. Wish there was a way to express emotion/tone through text.
 
gumby1220 said:
Alex H. I apologize if I was a bit naive at first, but video was more based on just getting the video ready more to do sound design then anything else audio and sync didn't really have a necessity until creating sounds in protools.
Click to expand...

No need to apologize.

As a side-note: any time you have a project coming from an NLE into a DAW, sync matters from start to finish whether the original video has one audio track or 40 audio tracks.
gumby1220 said:
Again I hope I don't come off as rude or with an attitude as this is not the case. Wish there was a way to express emotion/tone through text.
Click to expand...

No attitude detected, so don't worry.
 
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3 second handles aren't enough for me. I like as long as FCP can give me, but usually 10 seconds is good enough. That's saved my ass on some reality stuff.
 
Most of what I would say has been said. But h.264 is fine (and the only real way to deal with HD in PT) IF you select the key frames as ALL. It make the file larger but not a whole lot and makes the h.264 file have all the info in every frame. If you do it with a key frame every 24 frames going forward will be smooth but scrubbing or going backward will be a pain.

As a few mentioned pops need to be both audio and visual. Good job in adding the leaders and not using the FCP generated ones, though you might want to warn about that.

Also there is a convention with the pops you don't mention. In a feature head for every reel, tail for all but the last. Shorts don't usually have a tail pop (but it's not a bad thing to have one. Ads and such never have tail pops.

As you probably gathered from others I will want an OMF and I will want my video from the same seq as the OMF.

good start.

Oh something I forgot but you seem to have corrected is the video size. I can resize in PT if I need to. I want a decent size inage, 640X480 for standard def and 720 or so for HD. 1080 is probably over kill but...
I'm going to be doing some things that are sync critical so I really do want to see a decent image.
 
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Alright good deal and I'll try to mention in the next video that some audio post facilities prefer to have the video included in the OMF

Noiz2 said:
Most of what I would say has been said. But h.264 is fine (and the only real way to deal with HD in PT) IF you select the key frames as ALL. It make the file larger but not a whole lot and makes the h.264 file have all the info in every frame. If you do it with a key frame every 24 frames going forward will be smooth but scrubbing or going backward will be a pain.

As a few mentioned pops need to be both audio and visual. Good job in adding the leaders and not using the FCP generated ones, though you might want to warn about that.

Also there is a convention with the pops you don't mention. In a feature head for every reel, tail for all but the last. Shorts don't usually have a tail pop (but it's not a bad thing to have one. Ads and such never have tail pops.

As you probably gathered from others I will want an OMF and I will want my video from the same seq as the OMF.

good start.

Oh something I forgot but you seem to have corrected is the video size. I can resize in PT if I need to. I want a decent size inage, 640X480 for standard def and 720 or so for HD. 1080 is probably over kill but...
I'm going to be doing some things that are sync critical so I really do want to see a decent image.
Click to expand...
 
Looking good so far..

For a future vid, you might want to mention the Video Sync Offset which is yet another sync issue post guys have to deal with. I usually have luck with 17-22 quarter frame offsets. That varies with the codec as well. Motion JPEG codec files have a different sync offset than DV and H264 from my experience.

And I agree video size is great. The bigger the better but I'm so used to DV codec files :) Good thing they are derived from ProRes timelines so can at least see clearly.
 
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