Atomos Ninja Now Shipping According To Press Release - SDI Samurai at $1495.00 USD

Coco Bermudez said:
you know it...I am going to put it through hell before I take it out for production....
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That's absolutely the way to do it, and I think I speak for all of us when I say we really look forward to hearing your review. The Ninja (and, more to my liking, the Samurai) really represent just a crazy breakthrough in price/performance if they can really hold up their end of the bargain. Thanks for being our guinea pig! :thumbsup:
 
David Saraceno said:
Can anyone confirm "what's in the box?"

Are batteries and 2.5" drive included?
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Check out the www.atomos.com website and download the manual - there's a picture of everything in the box.

Two batteries giving approximately 4-5 hours running time are included, as well as a charger, two EMPTY master disk caddies, the USB 2/3 and Firewire 800 docking station, all cables except HDMI, and the case. We don't supply storage because you can probably buy it cheaper than we can, and certainly cheaper than we can supply it to you. Use only Intel SSDs. They seem to work much better than anything else. Look on the website for the latest suggestions for HDDs. If I had to recommend one manufacturer I'd say Hitachi at this stage.

Dave Shapton
President
Atomos EMEA
 
Dave-
In his video Jeromy mentions that the Ninja will work with 5400rpm drives. Does that mean that there's no advantage in using 7200rpm on either the Ninja or Samurai? Also the new Samurai press release mentions that its 5" screen has enough resolution to be used as a viewfinder. Will the focus assist from the AF100 be usable as well?
 
Additionally, does the Ninja remove pulldown on the fly?

I believe HDMI only provides a 60i stream, so is this built in?

And can you comment on this with the Samurai and SDI?
 
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BerkeleyBob said:
Dave-
In his video Jeromy mentions that the Ninja will work with 5400rpm drives. Does that mean that there's no advantage in using 7200rpm on either the Ninja or Samurai? Also the new Samurai press release mentions that its 5" screen has enough resolution to be used as a viewfinder. Will the focus assist from the AF100 be usable as well?
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What we recommend in the manual is that you start with faster drives and then work down towards the lower speed ones. A 5400 drive can absolutely work well, but they're not all equal, so it's hard to generalise. So it's a matter of looking at your individual situation: what version of ProRes you're using (ie: what bitrate) and what are the capabilities of the drives you're using.

A little bit of experimentation when you first get the unit will pay dividends in terms of knowing what works and what doesn't in a given situation, and you may find that 5400 drives are fine, or you may find you need an SSD, if you're hanging upside-down from a motorcycle.

We'll be putting suggestions on the website once we get enough feedback to generalise.

As far as the Samurai monitor is concerned, I personally think it's got a great resolution, and, at 5" it looks stunning; but I don't want to impose that opinion on anyone. Whether or not a monitor is usable for a given task is entirely subjective (if someone says it's great for them, then it is; and if they say it's unusable for them, then it is as well - for them). My view is that it's a great screen, and whether or not you use it for focus/depth of field etc, it's always good to have an extra portable monitor. If you use it as your main field monitor, just think of all the kit and money you're saving by not having to cart all that equipment around.

Dave Shapton
President
Atomos EMEA
 
Below are the recommended hard drives suggested by Atomos.

We're expecting our first shipment of Atomos Ninja's next week.

Compatible Drives
Manufacturer Model Capacity / Speed Notes
Hitachi Travelstar HTS725050 500G / 7200 rpm Excellent performance
Hitachi Travelstar HTS543232 320G / 5400 rpm
Intel X25 40G / 80G / 160G Excellent performance
Western Digital Scorpio Black WD5000BEKT 500G / 7200 rpm Excellent performance/Excellent shock handling
Samsung HM501II 500G / 5400 rpm
* These results are from internal laboratory testing at Atomos. They are offered without guarantee.
 
David, are there any Camera specific controls on the Samurai, or could they be added via firmware, ie pixel-to-pixel for focusing, and smpte/pal calibration, or is it purely a video feed plus a playback monitor?


David Shapton said:
As far as the Samurai monitor is concerned, I personally think it's got a great resolution, and, at 5" it looks stunning; but I don't want to impose that opinion on anyone. Whether or not a monitor is usable for a given task is entirely subjective (if someone says it's great for them, then it is; and if they say it's unusable for them, then it is as well - for them). My view is that it's a great screen, and whether or not you use it for focus/depth of field etc, it's always good to have an extra portable monitor. If you use it as your main field monitor, just think of all the kit and money you're saving by not having to cart all that equipment around.

Dave Shapton
President
Atomos EMEA
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David, are there any Camera specific controls on the Samurai, or could they be added via firmware, ie pixel-to-pixel for focusing, and smpte/pal calibration, or is it purely a video feed plus a playback monitor?
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Good question! We've got a very flexible architecture, with reprogrammable hardware, a flexible OS and UI, and, of course, a touchscreen, and that means that - given time - we can implement an extraordinary number of features. Of course, we want to limit them to the ones that will be of use to the biggest number of people. So, yes, we can do this sort of thing. A one-to-one pixel view is almost certainly possible.

Dave Shapton
Atomos
 
David, I am excited about the release of your products. I do have a question though. Aren't ya'll a little concerned that the perception of the quality and utility of the Ninja and the Samurai is ultimately dependent on the end user's choice of compatible high quality drives? I would hate that some schmo early end user buys a case of 2.5" drives real cheap out of the trunk of some dude's car (The "Boot" in the UK) and, if they fail to deliver in your products, slams ya'll in oft repeated internet posts! Just saying!

No slam to any poster in this thread intended.
 
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The price of hard drives change way too rapidly and for Atomos to keep a stock pile of them at a reasonable price doesn't make sense. I'm all for the route they have taken as long as they provide a list of proven drives that work.

David G. Smith said:
David, I am excited about the release of your products. I do have a question though. Aren't ya'll a little concerned that the perception of the quality and utility of the Ninja and the Samurai is ultimately dependent on the end user's choice of compatible high quality drives? I would hate that some schmo early end user buys a case of 2.5" drives real cheap out of the trunk of some dude's car (The "Boot" in the UK) and, if they fail to deliver in your products, slams ya'll in oft repeated internet posts! Just saying!

No slam to any poster in this thread intended.
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bgundu said:
The price of hard drives change way too rapidly and for Atomos to keep a stock pile of them at a reasonable price doesn't make sense. I'm all for the route they have taken as long as they provide a list of proven drives that work.
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Oh I am very pleased with the route they have taken. I apologize if my post was taken as a dis... it is not. I was really commenting more on the nature of the discourse out here in inter-webs land. Way to go Atomos... now look out for the crap storm!!!
 
David G. Smith said:
David, I am excited about the release of your products. I do have a question though. Aren't ya'll a little concerned that the perception of the quality and utility of the Ninja and the Samurai is ultimately dependent on the end user's choice of compatible high quality drives? I would hate that some schmo early end user buys a case of 2.5" drives real cheap out of the trunk of some dude's car (The "Boot" in the UK) and, if they fail to deliver in your products, slams ya'll in oft repeated internet posts! Just saying!

No slam to any poster in this thread intended.
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David, that's a very good point and is worth a detailed reply.

Atomos designs products that take advantage of the rapid changes in technology. The idea that you can buy hundreds of gigabytes of storage for less than a hundred bucks still seems astonishing to most people (at least to people of my age, anyway). We've crossed a threshold where we're giving you a platform to use with commodity IT supplies. As long as that is understood - and it is by the vast majority of people - then we are all free to reap the benefits of this new resource: incredibly cheap storage for high definition video. The Ninja and forthcoming Samurai are "platforms" in two senses: first, they're video computing platforms with touchscreens that are massively upgradable because of the software/hardware architecture. Second, they're capture devices that are engineered to work with the majority of storage devices that comply more or less to the standard for SSDs and hard disks. Which means that as long as you use devices that lie within this range, you should get great results. But, if you buy a box of used drives from a car-boot sale, then it's at least conceivable that you won't get great results.

Another way of putting it is that we've moved from a world where manufacturers like us supply "curated" storage - ie storage that's been fully tested by us and is guaranteed to the nth degree - to one where customers know enough about storage to be able to buy sensibly and understand what might work or not, and why. By doing this, we can give customers the benefit of the massive savings in storage. There's nothing wrong with the "curated" method - it's just that it would be so much more expensive. The chances are that our customers can buy storage as cheaply as we could. Just think how much more storage would cost if we had to buy it, support it ship it, distribute it and all of the things that that would entail.

Finally - storage changes so quickly these days. Prices seem to halve every year (so in five years time, it will be one thirty-second of the cost!) and designs change overnight. That's the nature of a commodity market in the technology sector.

As long as this is all understood, (and yes, perhaps it won't be by everyone), I think it's a perfectly valid way to do things.

Dave Shapton
Atomos
 
David Shapton said:
No need for scepticism. The actual shipments are taking place now. Units are being sent from distributors to resellers, and soon after that they will then be in the hands of the first customers.

Dave Shapton
President
Atomos EMEA
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Like many of us, I don't have $1500 lying around, but I want this and would like to see some reviews. So why not give or loan Barry Green a Samurai so he can put it through the paces and post his results - that is if the Samurai is as good as advertised and up for the challenge. If Barry gives it a thumbs up, I'll get it because it surely means I don't have to get a Nano or something else that isn't future proof. I'd also like to see what Barry thinks of the Samurai versus the AVC-Intra recorder HPG-20 or whatever it's called. That $5K monstrosity from Panny.
 
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I want this and would like to see some reviews
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Well, the Samurai's not available until the summer - we don't have an exact date yet, but, yes, we have an extensive review programme so you'll read plenty about it.

Dave Shapton
President
Atomos EMEA
 
why is this prores only? only for mac users?
seems not many people are concerned about this at all, but I am a hard headed PC maniac; I'm never going to Macs
like someone said, Cineform would have been nice
looks like a great product, but I won't be buying something that only uses Apple's prores
 
speedracerlo said:
why is this prores only? only for mac users?
seems not many people are concerned about this at all, but I am a hard headed PC maniac; I'm never going to Macs
like someone said, Cineform would have been nice
looks like a great product, but I won't be buying something that only uses Apple's prores
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We had to choose a codec to go with first. We couldn't do all of them at once because each one takes a huge amount of engineering and, in the case of ProRes, certification with Apple.

It might be useful if I explain that engineering a hardware codec is not the same as simply downloading a codec on a PC or Mac and just installing it: every bit of the code has to be hand-written, and then the interaction with the rest of the hardware has to be architected and fine-tuned.

So we simply went for the codec that met two essential criteria: that it is technically and visually superb, and that it is the most-requested codec for us to implement.

I can understand your position as a PC user. But you can use ProRes on PCs as long as you use applications that are happy with it. We're doing some detailed testing so I hope we can bring you more news on this; but the important thing is that PCs are not a barren wasteland for ProRes. Apple is aware of the PC world, which is why they have PC versions of Quicktime, Safari and iTunes.

For those who never want to use any Apple product, we are able to implement other codecs, and the next one is likely to be cross-platform. But we will not finalise our plans until we see a clear consensus as to which one we should do next.

Dave Shapton
President
Atomos EMEA
 
David Shapton said:
But we will not finalise our plans until we see a clear consensus as to which one we should do next.
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What you could do next is to test the Samurai under the very peculiar German conditions and for that you can take me as the test-person and send me one a.s.a.p...... ;-)

Thank you for your informative posts here. You sure have earned the symapthies of a lot of some people (at least mine). Your concept seems to be great and we all hope it will be technically as good as expected...
 
tipota said:
What you could do next is to test the Samurai under the very peculiar German conditions and for that you can take me as the test-person and send me one a.s.a.p...... ;-)

Thank you for your informative posts here. You sure have earned the symapthies of a lot of some people (at least mine). Your concept seems to be great and we all hope it will be technically as good as expected...
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Haha! I will bear your offer in mind in case we ever need to produce a special German, PC-oriented version!

Thanks for your kind words - very much appreciated.

Dave
Atomos
 
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