F35: As good as the original Sony F35 but this cam shoots in 4K
- Thread starter macgregor
- Start date
Hunter Hampton
Carbonite Member
OK sorry I thought it would be fun to do this to see if the quality passed the pixel peeping eyes of dvxuser!
Basically Mac and I had been looking at 1080->UHD upconversion options- the Teranex Studio products mainly- then Mac came across this super inexpensive plug in, we tested it and were amazed. Its temporally based so it ACTUALLY increases the resolution, not some fake sharpening- and its nearly realtime in rendering (depending on your PC)
Here is the catch, I dont think the developer ever intended to use it for provideo applications- it seems to be for upscaling ripped DVD's or something, so its limited in scope right now(bit depth and codec wise) but the temporal algorithims going on here are really doing some crazy work temporally upscaling the pristine quality HD from the F35 to UHD. We have been chatting with the developer asking to implement 10-bit and higher processing depths.
The process is called "Super Resolution" and basically looks at the difference between frames behind and after the current frame to calculate new information within the frame, this also has an effect of decreasing noise whilst increasing resolution. You can read all about it here and test it: http://www.infognition.com/super_resolution/
DISCLAIMER: We are in no way being paid by the developer, we just liked what this software was doing and wanted to start a conversation about HD-UHD upscale on the f35! If anyone has access to a Teranex Studio or other upscaler- we want to see it!
Basically Mac and I had been looking at 1080->UHD upconversion options- the Teranex Studio products mainly- then Mac came across this super inexpensive plug in, we tested it and were amazed. Its temporally based so it ACTUALLY increases the resolution, not some fake sharpening- and its nearly realtime in rendering (depending on your PC)
Here is the catch, I dont think the developer ever intended to use it for provideo applications- it seems to be for upscaling ripped DVD's or something, so its limited in scope right now(bit depth and codec wise) but the temporal algorithims going on here are really doing some crazy work temporally upscaling the pristine quality HD from the F35 to UHD. We have been chatting with the developer asking to implement 10-bit and higher processing depths.
The process is called "Super Resolution" and basically looks at the difference between frames behind and after the current frame to calculate new information within the frame, this also has an effect of decreasing noise whilst increasing resolution. You can read all about it here and test it: http://www.infognition.com/super_resolution/
DISCLAIMER: We are in no way being paid by the developer, we just liked what this software was doing and wanted to start a conversation about HD-UHD upscale on the f35! If anyone has access to a Teranex Studio or other upscaler- we want to see it!
starcentral
Veteran
Long live the f35! lol
I wonder how different/better/worse it is compared to Red Giant "instant 4K" plugin. (there's a free trial)
https://www.redgiant.com/products/instant-4k/
I wonder how different/better/worse it is compared to Red Giant "instant 4K" plugin. (there's a free trial)
https://www.redgiant.com/products/instant-4k/
Instant HD/4K is not that great - to the point where they discontinued it for a while because the built in AE scaling algorithms were doing just as good. Detail preserving upscale looks good, but definitely doesn't push DPX files to "4k" - whatever that means (just did some of my own messing around) - it looks good but not THAT GOOD.
If this plugin does what it/Hunter/Mac says it's exciting for not only F35, but a lot of cameras! I'm excited. Now to get them to support 10bit and beyond like you said and make a Mac version!
EDIT:
I also mentioned to Mitch a while ago that some sort of HD to 4K with amazing scaling algorithm built into the O7Q would be AMAZING.... I can't imagine that it would tax the unit that much even if it were limited to 30p and below or something... they'd never be able to use tech like this though which is a let down (because it's a temporal analysis but maybe theres something comparable?) - that and it being able to auto stitch the files together would make me a very happy camper.
If this plugin does what it/Hunter/Mac says it's exciting for not only F35, but a lot of cameras! I'm excited. Now to get them to support 10bit and beyond like you said and make a Mac version!
EDIT:
I also mentioned to Mitch a while ago that some sort of HD to 4K with amazing scaling algorithm built into the O7Q would be AMAZING.... I can't imagine that it would tax the unit that much even if it were limited to 30p and below or something... they'd never be able to use tech like this though which is a let down (because it's a temporal analysis but maybe theres something comparable?) - that and it being able to auto stitch the files together would make me a very happy camper.
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SJX
Veteran
So why didn't you do this instead of playing everybody saying it was new camera etc? Would be more useful.
Ps. F35 is unbeatable. Only F35 can beat F35.
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)
starcentral
Veteran
I'm just glad I can finally take my finger off the "buy it now" button for a A6300.
F35 for purchase back on my radar. :happy:
What we need is this 4K plugin in real-time as a hardware device recording to 7Q or something.
F35 for purchase back on my radar. :happy:
What we need is this 4K plugin in real-time as a hardware device recording to 7Q or something.
DarkMatter
Veteran
Nice find! Very cool! Hoping for a Mac version as well with 10+ bit etc... Thanks for passing on the info. Keep us updated!
Hunter Hampton
Carbonite Member
SJX
Veteran
I think they never do this because this would piss off Sony, Canon etc. Manufacturers want to sell us new 4K cameras and if 7q can do good scalling less people buy new camera. CD don't want to make their partner angry.
SJX
Veteran
Cool, looks promising. First thought, it's a temporal algorithm will it mess with the F35's wonderful motion characteristics in any way. Motion smoothed TV's also sample/interpolate neighbor frames to make new data, hopefully the result here doesn't mess with blur and cadence like that does. More samples please!
starcentral
Veteran
If you're caching the video stream then quite surely you can still do temporal analysis - albeit you need some serious processing. Maybe cost prohibitive to a point.
As for Convergent Design, Mitch's post about upscaling was pretty clear. I never read what seemed like so much hatred towards even the notion of upscaling with their devices along with expressions about reputations being damaged, etc.. I don't think CD will ever do this. SJX gives good reasons as for why as well...
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SJX
Veteran
I'm not sure. If this was so good they would post good video not stills here. Maybe can be something for future if this company want. Maybe now cat is out of bag mac and hunter post good videos in 4k.
I don't believe this up converts, only down. As Sandbox said I think Teranex Mini is the best cheap option for this. Anyone know what the output from that looks like? I have no idea.
starcentral
Veteran
it says converts SD or HD sources to Ultra HD video formats. But it comes out in HDMI, and I bet it just scales without any fancy secret sauce.
macgregor
Veteran
Here's a before/after comparison:
Of course Youtube's compression softens the image a bit, that's why stills gave a good idea of the improvement in detail.
Of course this plugin works with any camera at any resolution. What makes it ideal with the F35 is that as we know the F35 is on the top of the list of sharpest 1080p cameras ever made and a camera that does not introduce any sharpening artifacts or halos. Combined with true 444 sampling well, sounds like an ideal scenario for a temporal resolution enhancer to work well.
The Super resolution plugin does not seem to introduce much sharpening, which I like.
Of course this plugin works with any camera at any resolution. What makes it ideal with the F35 is that as we know the F35 is on the top of the list of sharpest 1080p cameras ever made and a camera that does not introduce any sharpening artifacts or halos. Combined with true 444 sampling well, sounds like an ideal scenario for a temporal resolution enhancer to work well.
The Super resolution plugin does not seem to introduce much sharpening, which I like.
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