ARRI Launches ALEXA Mini LF

[Eric Coughlin]

Eric, I've owned those two lenses for years. I had the full set of Aluras, sold the 18-80 a few years back when I went to the Cabrio. They are indeed clean modern lenses as Grug says. Very good optically, great build quality, never had an issue. Can't say a bad thing about them. I shot probably 60% of Key & Peele on those.

I'm currently selling the 15.5-45 and 30-80 for $13K, which is half of the new price. Two for one! DM me if you are interested.

Hah, and then I could brag to friends that my lenses were used to shoot Key and Peele, a show I'm a fan of regardless of you having shot it (though I first discovered it through you posting here). And even better, I could take advantage of your typo which fails to mention $13K each, so $13K for two of them at 1/4 the price of new, great deal! But I feel for Super35, while I'd imagine a bit better optically than my Canon CN-es, they'd be rather redundant for my needs, and I'll likely want to keep my Canons as the EF-mount works with my three EF mount Canon C300s that I don't foresee getting rid of anytime soon.

Why are you selling them? You find the Cabrio works well as a replacement for them?

 

[Eric Coughlin]

I got a quote from Abelcine for the Alexa Mini LF, and ouch on that $7K of sales tax that they put in the quote (I don't know why AbelCine listed sales tax at 9% on the quote; it's 7% where I am and that's what B&H lists my sales tax at). Ideas on how to get around this? Someone mentioned you could have an item shipped to a state with lower sales tax.

I just saw that B&H offers a "Save the Tax" credit card, in which they pay you back the cost of the sales tax, which is pretty significant. I wonder if that can be used in conjunction with their often around 10% discounts that you can get from a corporate account; I would think so since it's just a credit card. They typically don't offer corporate discounts for Arri cameras, though, along with other new items on the market. But yeah, saving $6k or so on sales tax is a lot of money. Are other retailers offering similar?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/bh-introduces-the-payboo-card-so-you-can-save-the-tax

 

[yoclay]

I got a quote from Abelcine for the Alexa Mini LF, and ouch on that $7K of sales tax that they put in the quote (I don't know why AbelCine listed sales tax at 9% on the quote; it's 7% where I am and that's what B&H lists my sales tax at). Ideas on how to get around this? Someone mentioned you could have an item shipped to a state with lower sales tax.

I just saw that B&H offers a "Save the Tax" credit card, in which they pay you back the cost of the sales tax, which is pretty significant. I wonder if that can be used in conjunction with their often around 10% discounts that you can get from a corporate account; I would think so since it's just a credit card. They typically don't offer corporate discounts for Arri cameras, though, along with other new items on the market. But yeah, saving $6k or so on sales tax is a lot of money. Are other retailers offering similar?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/bh-introduces-the-payboo-card-so-you-can-save-the-tax

https://econsultancy.com/bh-save-the-tax-a-fintech-opportunity/

 

[Run&Gun]

I got a quote from Abelcine for the Alexa Mini LF, and ouch on that $7K of sales tax that they put in the quote (I don't know why AbelCine listed sales tax at 9% on the quote; it's 7% where I am and that's what B&H lists my sales tax at). Ideas on how to get around this? Someone mentioned you could have an item shipped to a state with lower sales tax.

I just saw that B&H offers a "Save the Tax" credit card, in which they pay you back the cost of the sales tax, which is pretty significant. I wonder if that can be used in conjunction with their often around 10% discounts that you can get from a corporate account; I would think so since it's just a credit card. They typically don't offer corporate discounts for Arri cameras, though, along with other new items on the market. But yeah, saving $6k or so on sales tax is a lot of money. Are other retailers offering similar?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/bh-introduces-the-payboo-card-so-you-can-save-the-tax

The B&H card is nice. I have it and it’s saved me probably several hundred dollars over the several months since its introduction, BUT, you’re not buying an Alexa with it. I think they cap the cards credit limit at $5k-$6K. Maybe a little more...

 

[Eric Coughlin]

The B&H card is nice. I have it and it’s saved me probably several hundred dollars over the several months since its introduction, BUT, you’re not buying an Alexa with it. I think they cap the cards credit limit at $5k-$6K. Maybe a little more...

Hrm...when I bought my first Amira from Abelcine I paid for it with a debit and two or three credit cards. On top of that, they would have let me do a partial payment with one credit card (of which the limit was less than the cost of the camera, but that card had the highest cash back rate (2%)), pay off the card, wait a few days for the card to show available balance again, make another payment, etc. So, assuming B&H is the same, I suppose I could pay off the camera cost in $6k increments, pay off the card balance, pay another $6k, etc.

 

[Sttratos]

I think it hard to predict how much better IQ might be on the Alexa Mini 4K since it will be sporting the first truly new ARRI sensor since the original ALEV III was introduced on the Alexa Classic. Arri has had years to work on this so I'd like to think they are planning something big with this new sensor that will blow our minds.

This new sensor might even usher in a series of updates for the Alexa 65 and the Alexa LF over the next couple of years. Imagine the next incarnation of the Alexa 65 with 4 of these 4K sensors stacked to deliver an 8K image.

It will be interesting indeed. Especially that it is going against Arri's own philosophy which they have preached for years. To fit 4K in a S35 sensor the photosites will need to be smaller. The larger photosites is a big part of the Ari look now. We will see. Hopefully Arri is not throwing in the gloves and joining the video look train. Oh well, there are enough 3.2K Alexas on the market for years to come. Price will sink too on those once the 4K one hits.

 

[Sttratos]

I always hear talk of smaller pixel size negatively affecting image quality, so I'm gathering either Arri will have to make a breakthrough to get the same or better image quality in order to get to 4K, or compromises will need to be made. In terms of exacting specs cameras like the C500 Mark II are great that they have 6K at full frame and 4K at Super35, but their image is not up to Arri standards.

Ah yes. This is what I was getting at above.
It will be interesting to see how Arri does it.

 

[marvinhello]

I always hear talk of smaller pixel size negatively affecting image quality, so I'm gathering either Arri will have to make a breakthrough to get the same or better image quality in order to get to 4K, or compromises will need to be made. In terms of exacting specs cameras like the C500 Mark II are great that they have 6K at full frame and 4K at Super35, but their image is not up to Arri standards.



Ya'll think the 4K Alexa Mini or the Alexa LF will be the more popular camera?

It will be interesting indeed. Especially that it is going against Arri's own philosophy which they have preached for years. To fit 4K in a S35 sensor the photosites will need to be smaller. The larger photosites is a big part of the Ari look now. We will see. Hopefully Arri is not throwing in the gloves and joining the video look train. Oh well, there are enough 3.2K Alexas on the market for years to come. Price will sink too on those once the 4K one hits.

At the time ALEV III sensor was developed in partnership with Cypress (now ON Semi), smaller photosites was a problem due to readout noise and fill factor (QE). But now it's a non-issue now with the advancement of semiconductor design, think 24MP A7III performs better than 12MP A7S II in terms of sensitivity and DR.

For ARRI's 4K S35 sensor, the photosite shrink is not that dramatic (8.25um to 6.9um, assuming they keep the same sensor size). I imagine they could employ BSI, keep the dual ADC architecture but move them on-chip to reduce readout noise. With a modern CMOS tech refresh it's very likely that this 4K S35 could easily outperform ALEV III.

 

[Sttratos]

At the time ALEV III sensor was developed in partnership with Cypress (now ON Semi), smaller photosites was a problem due to readout noise and fill factor (QE). But now it's a non-issue now with the advancement of semiconductor design, think 24MP A7III performs better than 12MP A7S II in terms of sensitivity and DR.

For ARRI's 4K S35 sensor, the photosite shrink is not that dramatic (8.25um to 6.9um, assuming they keep the same sensor size). I imagine they could employ BSI, keep the dual ADC architecture but move them on-chip to reduce readout noise. With a modern CMOS tech refresh it's very likely that this 4K S35 could easily outperform ALEV III.

Here's hoping. Fingers crossed.

 

[Run&Gun]

Hrm...when I bought my first Amira from Abelcine I paid for it with a debit and two or three credit cards. On top of that, they would have let me do a partial payment with one credit card (of which the limit was less than the cost of the camera, but that card had the highest cash back rate (2%)), pay off the card, wait a few days for the card to show available balance again, make another payment, etc. So, assuming B&H is the same, I suppose I could pay off the camera cost in $6k increments, pay off the card balance, pay another $6k, etc.

Give ‘em a call and ask them, but I'm betting that it’s set up to not work that way, otherwise they would probably be issuing cards with MUCH higher limits. They’re keeping the limits on the cards low on purpose so that people can’t make extremely large purchases that qualify for extremely large “rewards”. They’re banking on people using these cards on few hundred to few thousand dollar purchases and then enough people carrying a balance to cover the rewards/tax. My bet, the program is set-up to not allow you to use the card like that. Remember, it’s not a traditional Visa/MasterCard/etc.

 

[Teddy_Dem]

ARRI have added an article and interview with Roger Deakins about the ALEXA Mini LF, with some interesting quotes:

"The format, to me, feels more like my stills camera,” he says. “I have always been a stills photographer, really, since I was pretty young. So I feel more familiar with that format and that sort of depth of field than I do with regular [Super] 35."

"It was the sense that you could shoot with a longer lens, get less depth of field, but still maintain the width of view,” he says. “I don’t like shooting close-ups of people on wide lenses. A 40 mm is very comfortable, I think, for shooting a close-up, unless you’re going intensely close. And that’s what drew me to it, really, the idea of shooting on a 40 mm but getting the width—getting the background at the same time."

"If you’re actually studying it on a big screen, it is remarkable, the difference in quality and the roll-off, and the subtlety of the tones. That was the thing that struck me most, actually."

"I have always used primes, he says. “I started off with the Zeiss Distagons and Planars, then Cooke S4s, then I went to the Master Primes. So coming to the LF, we did a lot of tests with various lenses, but for me, the Signatures are the cleanest I’ve seen."

https://www.arri.com/en/company/arr...e-asc-bsc-on-his-journey-to-arri-large-format

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC4eGpfhpm8

 

[Guest]

Thanks Teddy!

 

[Guest]

“As I get older [cameras] get smaller and lighter. It’s kind of good, actually.”

It is always interesting to hear an old school guy like him talk about wanting sharp and clean lenses.

Especially nice being able to compare his Blade runner to the original. The original is full of vintage artifacts and all kinds of things. Really stark difference between the two films. Both gorgeous in therir own ways.

The Trinity is a kind of blend between a dolly and a steadicam. Has almost the solidity of a dolly, but the free form float of a steadicam. I am kind of tall, so, i found it nice for framing when a normal steadi would require me to shoot from just above my hips, rather than my shoulders.

The Signatures are the closest thing to no lens i’ve seen. Wish i could even afford to rent them. The magnesium housing makes them lighter weight than they look.

Also, i’ve heard RD mention he likes his Leica M most of all camera sustems out there, so, i totally believe him when he says the LF brings him into familiar, or even prefered format.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

4K Trailer, for those who only saw the much more viewed 1080 trailer.

 

[Samuel H]

"The format, to me, feels more like my stills camera,” he says. “I have always been a stills photographer, really, since I was pretty young. So I feel more familiar with that format and that sort of depth of field than I do with regular [Super] 35."

It is WEIRD to read this from somebody who has been working with S35 for so many years. Either he's pushing marketing, or he must be taking insane amounts of stills, for that to feel more familiar to him.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

It is WEIRD to read this from somebody who has been working with S35 for so many years. Either he's pushing marketing, or he must be taking insane amounts of stills, for that to feel more familiar to him.

It's like saying someone is more familiar with their native language than the language they've been living and speaking with for a large portion of their life. He started with still photography before doing motion pictures.

I do wonder if he gets paid to do these interviews, but I don't think that would negate the beneficial points he makes.

 

[Grug]

It's like saying someone is more familiar with their native language than the language they've been living and speaking with for a large portion of their life. He started with still photography before doing motion pictures.

I do wonder if he gets paid to do these interviews, but I don't think that would negate the beneficial points he makes.

One does wonder. That said, if a company is building prototype cinema cameras for you, just so you can have the best on your latest film, I can see a person feeling some obligation to give back.

 

[Samuel H]

Maybe he just fell limited all his life, comparing his S35 work with his FF hobby. But as I said: weird, I definitely didn't expect something like that.

 

[Teddy_Dem]

Granted this is an ARRI promo piece about the ALEXA Mini LF, so it’s going to play like that and you’re only going to hear all the great things about it. However I do get the feeling that based on how they planned to shoot 1917, the size and weight of the camera, which he harped on a lot, in addition to lens choices played a major part in choosing to go with prototype Mini LF’s and he may have come away from the movie pretty impressed. The fact that it is a FF camera which is a format that he seems to be pretty familiar with from photography may have been the icing on the cake. I remember that Deakins and Villeneuve tested the Alexa 65 for Blade Runner 2049 and opted to instead shoot it at S35. I’m not all that familiar with the lens options that are available for the Alexa 65, but that may have played a part in not going in that direction.

http://www.icgmagazine.com/web/humanity-2-0/

“Deakins and Villeneuve concurred on shooting with ALEXAs (XT Studio, augmented by the Plus and Mini cameras) and capturing in 3.4K to Codex in MXF/Arrriraw. “We decided to shoot this open-gate, like Sicario,” Deakins shares. “I did shoot tests with the ALEXA 65, which produces fantastic images, but for this project it just didn’t feel right. People bandy about all these numbers in regard to resolution but there’s a lot more to consider rather than the amount of data,” Deakins notes about differing opinions on image quality. “Important are such things as latitude, noise level, chromatic aberration and, most importantly, halation that can be created by the sensor. I like lenses that are clean and sharp, so I went with the Zeiss Master Primes, which are fast and also don’t flare the highlights. I don’t like image artifacts [like flaring] that can, though not always, distract from the narrative.”

 

[DLD]

It's like saying someone is more familiar with their native language than the language they've been living and speaking with for a large portion of their life. He started with still photography before doing motion pictures.

I do wonder if he gets paid to do these interviews, but I don't think that would negate the beneficial points he makes.

He probably gets paid pretty big money as a product endorser. That said, if he wanted ST over 65, that was his choice of the aesthetics. Having watched about an hour of BR2049 a couple of nights ago, I noticed he rarely went for the super shallow DOF.

In terms of the 65m lenses, most are rehoused Hassy (most Panavision 65 glass is with them or in private hands).

And languages get displaced, if you don't use them on a regular basis.