JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
I just don't agree that your experience means that's how it always works. That's not how it works with a lot of corporate work, which is where I am, and yes, in Los Angeles. Nobody is going to pay me $5,000 per corporate video without seeing what I've done before. Nobody. That's the entire reason that they hire me, based on previous work done. They've either seen it on a competitor's Website or they see what I show them I can do to theirs, based on the past work, and we can haggle over cost, etc.
What you seem to be saying is a lot of true statements, but sort of added up to mean something I don't think they mean. Your first part of the past said basically that all of these people didn't need reels, which is untrue. They only didn't need reels once their work was already well known enough that they became unnecessary. Like Steven Spielberg obviously doesn't need a reel, nor does Michael Mann or David Fincher or something. You know who they are. They get hired based on reputation. Even at a much lower level that still happens. And also I have no idea why you'd want to see a reel for anyone but a DP or director. Producers don't have reels. They never have had reels, in the history of the world. A reel is a visual reference to what you can do, or for a director showing how you build a scene, etc. Producers do paperwork and manage business aspects; you can't have a reel for that, just a resume. I hire all kinds of people just like you say, based on word of mouth. If someone says they've worked with this gaffer, he's good, I hire him over anyone else just based on that recommendation. Same with a sound guy. I think that's how most of us do it because we want to know someone is trustworthy.
But if you think I would hire a DP just because someone said he's good, without having seen any of his work, no way! The DP is the most important position on set basically. I can live with a pretty bad grip, I mean how hard is it, move some equipment around, rig a c-stand, I can grip myself. It takes two months to learn those skills at the very most, no disrespect to grips but it is not a skilled position by any means. Maybe on Titanic, but not on indie shoots. It's easy on indie stuff. But I cannot get by if my DP is incompetent, or maybe I just don't like his style. No matter how you cut it I've never heard of a DP being hired without a great reel, short of being a big time DP, and that coming from having many friends who are DPs. They are all hired based on really good reels. They of course get connections first, but to say they were hired on those is incorrect. They were referred to someone, who saw their reel, then said, "Yeah, he is good! Ok put me in touch," etc. This is how it happens for most people.
I can trust a grip or a gaffer or maybe a sound guy, but I don't have to trust a DP, I can see his reel and figure out for myself if he's any good.
Again a lot of what you said is spot on, but it makes it sound like somehow you can just break into the industry without a reel. NOTHING could be further from the truth! You MUST have a reel to get into the industry, to get any sort of job whatsoever that counts, besides a grip or PA or something. You say it's based on trust, but that trust is based on being hired at some point in the past and doing a great job, and to get hired at the start you MUST be able to show some skill and aptitude for what you want to get hired doing. You can't simply have some producer go, "Sure, I'll hire you as the director, never seen anything you've done and this is a $50,000 music video but what the heck why not?" I don't think so! I know that cannot be what you're saying, but you are making it sound that way.
For you, maybe a Website isn't that important. For me, it's everything. You don't run a media company. I do. My company already manages a Web contract for a major company in the niche business we target, and a big part of what we are doing is redesigning Websites with added video elements. I could not at all get by with a lousy iWeb site or no Website. That would work fine for an editor, honestly, because if you see the work is good who cares if his Website is outdated and old?! Not me. But if I was a corporation paying a lot of money to hire a company to do Website redesign and video production, darn right I want to see past work and a nice Website!
What you seem to be saying is a lot of true statements, but sort of added up to mean something I don't think they mean. Your first part of the past said basically that all of these people didn't need reels, which is untrue. They only didn't need reels once their work was already well known enough that they became unnecessary. Like Steven Spielberg obviously doesn't need a reel, nor does Michael Mann or David Fincher or something. You know who they are. They get hired based on reputation. Even at a much lower level that still happens. And also I have no idea why you'd want to see a reel for anyone but a DP or director. Producers don't have reels. They never have had reels, in the history of the world. A reel is a visual reference to what you can do, or for a director showing how you build a scene, etc. Producers do paperwork and manage business aspects; you can't have a reel for that, just a resume. I hire all kinds of people just like you say, based on word of mouth. If someone says they've worked with this gaffer, he's good, I hire him over anyone else just based on that recommendation. Same with a sound guy. I think that's how most of us do it because we want to know someone is trustworthy.
But if you think I would hire a DP just because someone said he's good, without having seen any of his work, no way! The DP is the most important position on set basically. I can live with a pretty bad grip, I mean how hard is it, move some equipment around, rig a c-stand, I can grip myself. It takes two months to learn those skills at the very most, no disrespect to grips but it is not a skilled position by any means. Maybe on Titanic, but not on indie shoots. It's easy on indie stuff. But I cannot get by if my DP is incompetent, or maybe I just don't like his style. No matter how you cut it I've never heard of a DP being hired without a great reel, short of being a big time DP, and that coming from having many friends who are DPs. They are all hired based on really good reels. They of course get connections first, but to say they were hired on those is incorrect. They were referred to someone, who saw their reel, then said, "Yeah, he is good! Ok put me in touch," etc. This is how it happens for most people.
I can trust a grip or a gaffer or maybe a sound guy, but I don't have to trust a DP, I can see his reel and figure out for myself if he's any good.
Again a lot of what you said is spot on, but it makes it sound like somehow you can just break into the industry without a reel. NOTHING could be further from the truth! You MUST have a reel to get into the industry, to get any sort of job whatsoever that counts, besides a grip or PA or something. You say it's based on trust, but that trust is based on being hired at some point in the past and doing a great job, and to get hired at the start you MUST be able to show some skill and aptitude for what you want to get hired doing. You can't simply have some producer go, "Sure, I'll hire you as the director, never seen anything you've done and this is a $50,000 music video but what the heck why not?" I don't think so! I know that cannot be what you're saying, but you are making it sound that way.
For you, maybe a Website isn't that important. For me, it's everything. You don't run a media company. I do. My company already manages a Web contract for a major company in the niche business we target, and a big part of what we are doing is redesigning Websites with added video elements. I could not at all get by with a lousy iWeb site or no Website. That would work fine for an editor, honestly, because if you see the work is good who cares if his Website is outdated and old?! Not me. But if I was a corporation paying a lot of money to hire a company to do Website redesign and video production, darn right I want to see past work and a nice Website!
Even though it's the media city of germany.
