Apple iSlate / iPad

[ZazaCast]

No doubt they are going after the same market, but most netbooks look and feel cheap. This doesn't, and people will pay for that. The cheap ipad isn't that much more expensive than a good netbook.

Have you held one? (cause I want to see it!)

Don't get me wrong, I think it's pretty cool & Apple sure can engineer and market things...I mean look at what a big deal it was for the iPhone to get a camera...like the thousands of other phones that had them for years.

The coolest thing (IMO) about the iPad so far is the no contract 3g service plans...other than that it's just an iPod on steroids. At least a Netbook runs a real OS.

They could have at least added a SD Card slot....something. But I'm sure Google will have something that will take advantage of their holdings popping up soon enough.

 

[OldCorpse]

The problem is that this is mostly a media consumer device - not a media creator. You can download stuff and watch stuff and listen to stuff - but it doesn't have usb access anywhere that I can see... what if I want to offload something I made, or what if I want to load my own files etc. That's just lame. The other thing is that it's not that portable - the Touch is... this thing is just a tad awkward, can't slip it into your pocket, or do stuff with one hand, and at 1.5lb is pretty hefty to boot. Sure 10 hours battery life is nice (wonder what it's in real life), but that's still not that great if you want to go out hiking/camping far from civilization - the Kindle at least can function for that time. And the resolution - meh.

That said, I bet this is just the beginning. In time - maybe by version 5, it might amount to something. But I am not gonna buy this one. I'll wait a couple of years to see how useful it can become and evolve. It's a beginning though!

 

[ZazaCast]

That said, I bet this is just the beginning. In time - maybe by version 5, it might amount to something. But I am not gonna buy this one. I'll wait a couple of years to see how useful it can become and evolve. It's a beginning though!

This is what I'm talking about... it's NOT a beginning... I was working with tablet PC's 7 years ago...when they were new.

Check this out: http://www.tabletpcreview.com/default.asp?newsID=1356

The only thing new is Apple changing the eBook (that everyone knows) into the iBook.

 

[ChipThome]

I looked and left unimpressed for myself.

It's too big, and not big enough all at the same time.

Looks awkward which has been stated.

Seriously, if you don't carry an briefcase, large purse or backpack, how the heck do you carry this thing around ???

It still isn't a phone, so I guess you have to carry that around too.

A fancy gadget, but not real practical for most people.

 

[dust'n the callipygous]

for people that lug around business laptops all day, i think it'd be great. looks like you can get iWork on it (mostly). now if they put iLife, a flash player, and allow multitasking, it would appeal to a lot more people. and who needs a separate phone service when you've got unlimited 3g and skype?

 

[Batutta]

Have you held one? (cause I want to see it!)

Don't get me wrong, I think it's pretty cool & Apple sure can engineer and market things...I mean look at what a big deal it was for the iPhone to get a camera...like the thousands of other phones that had them for years.

But the deal with Apple has always been the smooth, intuitive user interface and ergonomics. I have an Iphone and it's always a seamless experience. I used a friend's blackberry once and after 30 seconds wanted to throw it out the window. The ipad will be the same. Is it anything new? No, but the user experience will probably be fantastic as it always is with Apple. That may not matter to you, and that's fine, but a lot of people want things that just work, right when they pick it up, and an interface that makes intuitive sense. That's what Apple sells. You may think it's a waste of money but a lot of people are willing to pay for that.

 

[HorseFilms]

The twenty-seven minutes or so it takes for my Dell netbook to wake from sleep mode also allows me to get a lot of non-computer-related stuff done... and also, by the time it comes up, I've forgotten what I wanted to do with it in the first place.

I have an MSI Wind running XP with 2 GBs of RAM. Not an issue.

 

[OldCorpse]

This is what I'm talking about... it's NOT a beginning... I was working with tablet PC's 7 years ago...when they were new.

Check this out: http://www.tabletpcreview.com/default.asp?newsID=1356

The only thing new is Apple changing the eBook (that everyone knows) into the iBook.

I'm afraid you're missing the point rather badly. It is new. PC tablets have been around - and largely failed. Why? Because they simply took the OS - Windows - and wrenched it, grafted it, frankensteined it, crowbared it onto a tablet device... which is wrong, and unsuited. The OS was not written to be used on a tablet, but on a computer. It therefore fails dramatically in usability.

Now the difference. Apple groks the issue. They avoid the mistakes tablets to date made. INSTEAD - and this makes all the difference - they wrote an OS (iPhone based) that's specifically built for the small/mobile form factor. That is the absolute crucial difference. It's built on gestures and an idiom that's not based on OS X or Windows or the computer interface idiom. That, dear friend, is the difference between life and death, the alpha and omega.

Remember the iPod? It wasn't the first mp3 player. It wasn't even the most specced out, technically. It wasn't the cheapest. BUT. It had the best interface of all - and that, friend, allowed it to succeed wildly.

Same here. I'm not gonna buy it, by any means, I think it's still too little - but I have no doubt that they are on the right path. PC tablets are on the wrong evolutionary branch... they were destined to die out. Watch how in time, like mammals taking over, the iPad form factor and philosophy and UI will be adopted by all PC tablet survivors. But it's still a primitive beast. I'll wait for it to become "intelligent"... it's still too dumb, too limited and just not good enough.

But yes, it is a beginning.

 

[TimurCivan]

It would be a helluva lotcooler if it had a camera and could be used as a skype video chat device. I'm still waiting for the phone that can do video skype.... japan has it..... why not us?

 

[ZazaCast]

I'm afraid you're missing the point rather badly.

Nope. It isn't anything new...you even state it runs the iPhone OS...it can't even multitask. Nothing new here.

Now the difference. Apple groks the issue. They avoid the mistakes tablets to date made. INSTEAD - and this makes all the difference - they wrote an OS (iPhone based) that's specifically built for the small/mobile form factor. That is the absolute crucial difference. It's built on gestures and an idiom that's not based on OS X or Windows or the computer interface idiom. That, dear friend, is the difference between life and death, the alpha and omega.

It's not that small, my friend (and the iPhone OS was written for the iPhone)....nor very useful in the current state. Give it 5 more generation and maybe they'll have something more than a full-color KindlePod.

Remember the iPod? It wasn't the first mp3 player. It wasn't even the most specced out, technically. It wasn't the cheapest. BUT. It had the best interface of all - and that, friend, allowed it to succeed wildly.

Yes, but would it have been as successful without iTunes? I fear not my friend...damn, you have so many 'my friends' in here, you got me doing it now!
(and shouldn't that be iFriend?):happy:

You will also notice that iPod sales are way down...check it out. All those other mp3 players are still out there and selling too. Plenty of room for everyone.

Same here. I'm not gonna buy it, by any means, I think it's still too little - but I have no doubt that they are on the right path. PC tablets are on the wrong evolutionary branch... they were destined to die out. Watch how in time, like mammals taking over, the iPad form factor and philosophy and UI will be adopted by all PC tablet survivors. But it's still a primitive beast. I'll wait for it to become "intelligent"... it's still too dumb, too limited and just not good enough.

But yes, it is a beginning.

I WILL be purchasing one... I have to, as developing apps is part of my business. New? Magical? ...no way. Beginning?...debatable...but there is PLENTY of room for improvement just like all of us here. Apple is the king of engineering and marketing, if you don't believe me, re-read your post, my friend.

 

[ChipG]

You guys are forgetting something like this isn't made for us. We're all audio/visual professionals who need horsepower and flexibility. Your average person just needs to e-mail, word process, surf the web and do social networking, which this thing will be a dream for, in a form factor that's light and extremely portable.

I wasn't going to use it for anything more than a big sticky on my refrigerator so guests can choose between PBR or Bud light. Ya know, a big magnet on the back and some music videos in the kitchen for a little entertainment when you want people to leave.

 

[OldCorpse]

Nope. It isn't anything new...you even state it runs the iPhone OS...it can't even multitask. Nothing new here.

No. I said based on the iPhone OS, not "runs" the iPhone OS - because it's iPad only as explained here on AI. So what that it can't multitask? It's still novel - just as the original iPhone OS was novel (revolutionized smartphones) even though it couldn't do something as basic as copy'n'paste. Newness is not defined by which functions it can't do (yet).

It's not that small, my friend (and the iPhone OS was written for the iPhone)....nor very useful in the current state. Give it 5 more generation and maybe they'll have something more than a full-color KindlePod.

The iPhone OS was written for the iPhone - but that's kinda the point... it's a MOBILE small factor device - much more so than a laptop. It can be adapted (and was) to the iPad, because it shares the same roots - mobile and small - compared to a laptop. You're still missing the point... it's the software that matches the hardware. That's what traditional tablets got wrong - the software did not match the hardware, since it was written for computers, and a tablet has different UI requirements, not being mouse based and command based etc. Gestures and screen touch sensitivity are central - and almost totally absent in traditional computer OS UI - so it's a HUGE miss not to grasp that. Let me repeat for emphasis: what's new (compared to traditional PC tablets) is that it's focused on the UI as distinct from a computer UI (heck, Ballmer demoed an HP "iSlate" just two weeks ago... and it ran windows! M-I-S-S-I-N-G T-H-E P-O-I-N-T).

Yes, but would it have been as successful without iTunes? I fear not my friend...damn, you have so many 'my friends' in here, you got me doing it now!

Well, iTunes is software... that's suited to an iPod - but you got it quite wrong, since you don't interact with iTunes the same way on an iPod as you do on a computer... which actually proves my point! The point being, that you must adapt everything to the UI requirements of the device. Which iTunes on iPod does brilliantly... and differently from the way it's done on a computer. So again, class, repeat after me: what made the iPod successful? The UI! Of course additional factors were present, including hardware design, aesthetics etc. But without the UI, it would be all dead

You will also notice that iPod sales are way down...check it out. All those other mp3 players are still out there and selling too. Plenty of room for everyone.

Of course they are down - the market is saturated. But they are not down more than "those other mp3 players" - because the iPod did not lose market share! And which iPod is rocketing up in sales - going up, not down? Touch! Yep, the one with the most suited UI (again, iPhone based - mobile and form factor fitting).

I WILL be purchasing one... I have to, as developing apps is part of my business. New? Magical? ...no way. Beginning?...debatable...but there is PLENTY of room for improvement just like all of us here. Apple is the king of engineering and marketing, if you don't believe me, re-read your post, my friend.

Marketing or not, facts are facts. FACT: traditional PC tablets are largely a failure - and they DO run the computer OS. The iPad - just like the iPhone and Touch - does not. Those are facts. That this is new is indisputable - just go revisit Ballmer's presentation from Las Vegas, and you'll see the "old"... just the facts, m'am. Now you can contrast the "old" with the "new".

 

[ZazaCast]

* yawn*

Apples to oranges (no pun intended). Bottom line, in the current state, the iPad is nothing new. (we can agree to disagree forever) The hipe and what most people want is an all-in-one protable device with an easy UI and mega battery life... that's what people expected....this is not that.

Makes no difference to me. I work with ALL computer platforms so the more the merrier. Job security. This is starting to look like the old Apple v. Microsoft and I'm not going there. Best of luck to you Old Corpse.

 

[Jester2138]

You guys are forgetting something like this isn't made for us. We're all audio/visual professionals who need horsepower and flexibility. Your average person just needs to e-mail, word process, surf the web and do social networking, which this thing will be a dream for, in a form factor that's light and extremely portable.

Except that it's not light or extremely portable. The iPhone and Droid are light and extremely portable, not this. This is significantly larger/heavier. You can't just stick it in your pocket, so you'll have to put it in a briefcase or backpack... and then you might as well be carrying a laptop/netbook that can do a hell of a lot more stuff than this thing, and do it a hell of a lot faster/easier too.

The twenty-seven minutes or so it takes for my Dell netbook to wake from sleep mode also allows me to get a lot of non-computer-related stuff done... and also, by the time it comes up, I've forgotten what I wanted to do with it in the first place.

If your netbook takes longer than 60 seconds to boot, you're doing something terrible wrong... My friend has one and it boots in 30 seconds or less.

for people that lug around business laptops all day, i think it'd be great. looks like you can get iWork on it (mostly). now if they put iLife, a flash player, and allow multitasking, it would appeal to a lot more people. and who needs a separate phone service when you've got unlimited 3g and skype?

I used to carry a Thinkpad around school all day in my backpack, with books and stuff. It weighed less than a textbook and could actually do things besides sit there. Never was a problem for me. Since you can't put the iPad in a pocket (not even remotely) what's the advantage of it over a serious laptop/netbook?

I'm afraid you're missing the point rather badly. It is new. PC tablets have been around - and largely failed. Why? Because they simply took the OS - Windows - and wrenched it, grafted it, frankensteined it, crowbared it onto a tablet device... which is wrong, and unsuited. The OS was not written to be used on a tablet, but on a computer. It therefore fails dramatically in usability.

Now the difference. Apple groks the issue. They avoid the mistakes tablets to date made. INSTEAD - and this makes all the difference - they wrote an OS (iPhone based) that's specifically built for the small/mobile form factor. That is the absolute crucial difference. It's built on gestures and an idiom that's not based on OS X or Windows or the computer interface idiom. That, dear friend, is the difference between life and death, the alpha and omega... PC tablets are on the wrong evolutionary branch... they were destined to die out.

OK, a couple mistakes in this statement. First, plenty of netbooks don't even use Windows, they use Linux. Second, ever heard of Windows Tablet Edition or Windows 7? Apparently not. Third, the OS on the iPad is more or less the same as the one on the iPhone, with the same problems. Those problems are only magnified when you start using on a larger device for larger work. Fourth you say it will succeed because "it's not based on the computer interface idiom." That sounds like you're saying it will succeed because it doesn't have a "computer's interface." Forgetting the fact that you apparently don't know what a computer is, the whole point of this device is that it is supposed to REPLACE your computer for many of it's functions. The fact that it doesn't work the same way is EXACTLY what's wrong with it. Multitasking, etc. are fundamental to a computer and must be included with any device that claims to do the same things. The iPhone/Droid don't need quite the same interface because they're FAR too small so they can get away with it, but as soon as you start moving to larger screen you have to change your design philosophy.

Fifth, have either of us actually used it? So what do we know?

 

[Sad Max]

I wasn't going to use it for anything more than a big sticky on my refrigerator so guests can choose between PBR or Bud light. Ya know, a big magnet on the back and some music videos in the kitchen for a little entertainment when you want people to leave.

Sticking a big-ass magnet to the back of this thing looks like an experiment destined to end in tears...

...although come to think of it as an on-set bit of hardware for video dressing it may come in quite handy, for the right price.

 

[Jester2138]

No. I said based on the iPhone OS, not "runs" the iPhone OS - because it's iPad only as explained here on AI. So what that it can't multitask? It's still novel - just as the original iPhone OS was novel (revolutionized smartphones) even though it couldn't do something as basic as copy'n'paste. Newness is not defined by which functions it can't do (yet).

So how do you define newness? If it has the Apple logo on it? Generally the point of capitalism is to make something BETTER than the competition.

Lets pretend that a company released a competitor to the iPad a week ago. It was very small, could multitask, use a serious processor, could run basically any software known to mankind, boot really fast, connect to 3G networks, etc. etc. but it wasn't Apple-branded. More features, but not Apple. Nobody would know about it. The only thing the iPad has that other tablets don't have is the Apple logo.

Oh, wait, they already did this. Here's the latest version: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4497

Lots of businesses already use that, and I guarantee you they won't be switching to the iPad. Might want to think on why that is...

 

[Jester2138]

This is starting to look like the old Apple v. Microsoft and I'm not going there. Best of luck to you Old Corpse.

Agreed. I'm out. Not getting into the Apple vs. PC thing anymore. When some people have an opinion they will find facts to support it, not the other way around.

 

[OldCorpse]

First, plenty of netbooks don't even use Windows, they use Linux.

Head ------> desk.

Yes, I see you are still missing the point, and this is the perfect illustration of it. You mention Linux?? As if that's a refutation? IT IS NOT ABOUT WHICH COMPUTER OPERATING SYSTEM. It's not about Windows vs OS X, or Linux vs Sun! It is about a computer operating system vs a tablet operating system. Linux was developed for computers, not tablets. Tablets need their own UI - which involves screen touch and other idioms - you don't touch your screen on a computer! Linux?? Holy moly, talk about missing the point. But that's just it - there's a reason why certain people are perpetually caught by surprise when technology makes a transition... "whoa, like, what's new about an iPod, man - my Coby MP3 Marvel plays things just like the iPod". Zoooom - that' the sound of a point flying over someone's head. Linux! Lol!

Second, ever heard of Windows Tablet Edition or Windows 7? Apparently not.

That "Zooom" sound keeps ringing! Exactly. Take a look at the Windows Tablet Edition. It shares the same problems as Windows CE. What is the main rap against WinCE? It's that it's supposed to be a mobile small form factor OS - but instead, it brings the same windows idiom as in the full OS, only crippled. What you need is a new idiom specifically suited to the hardware. WinCE and Windows Tablet Edition fail at that. And both are dying.

Third, the OS on the iPad is more or less the same as the one on the iPhone, with the same problems. Those problems are only magnified when you start using on a larger device for larger work.

The first semi-valid point. No question, the iPad OS will need to be better adjusted to the form factor. And as per the link I provided, the iPad apparently runs its own form of OS (though derived entirely from iPhone OS) - it is just a beginning, hopefully. Which is what I maintained - the iPad is just in the first stages. Too primitive for my personal purposes, but I can see the potential down the road. If they manage to go further in fully exploiting the form factor UI, they'll succeed - we'll see if they manage to run with it.

Fourth you say it will succeed because "it's not based on the computer interface idiom." That sounds like you're saying it will succeed because it doesn't have a "computer's interface."

Yes...

Forgetting the fact that you apparently don't know what a computer is,

Huh?

the whole point of this device is that it is supposed to REPLACE your computer for many of it's functions.

Yes. Which is my point.

The fact that it doesn't work the same way is EXACTLY what's wrong with it.

Zooom! It's exactly what is right about it. A computer UI is suite to computers. It is not suited to operating a tablet, baking bread, or digging ditches. You need a different tool for the job - a tool suited to the job. It would be idiotic to have a tablet work exactly like a computer, or try to use a laptop to dig a ditch. Still missing the point! Computer does NOT equal Tablet. Therefore Computer OS must not equal Tablet OS.

Multitasking, etc. are fundamental to a computer and must be included with any device that claims to do the same things.

Zooom! But it doesn't claim to do the same things. A smart phone is not a computer in your shirt pocket. A tablet is not a computer in your overcoat huge pocket. They are discreet devices.

I think the source of your befuddlement and confusion is here: you confuse "replace some functions of the computer" with "duplicate the same functions of a computer".

The iPhone/Droid don't need quite the same interface because they're FAR too small so they can get away with it, but as soon as you start moving to larger screen you have to change your design philosophy.

Again the same semi-valid point. Yes, the iPad will need to go a lot further to match the UI to its form factor. It has just started - my point - but has a lot further to go. But I see it as the first step on the journey - you don't realize there's a journey at all. Zooom!

Fifth, have either of us actually used it? So what do we know?

Agreed!

 

[Isaac_Brody]

Enough, everyone step back from the keyboard and chill out.

:bath:

 

[puredrifting]

You might as well close it Isaac, it is getting pointless.

D