Anyone Staying with DSLR's?

groveChuck said:
I take all reviews with a grain of salt. And obviously, none of us know if he's been paid by Panasonic. But perhaps he didn't find the camera lacking for his purposes?
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I would sincerely hope that someone given access to a preproduction camera would offer a review (or preview) not from their own perspective, but perhaps from the perspective of potential owners. Whether they be ENG types, indie filmmakers, wedding and event folk, or whatever. That is the worth of these types of camera reviews. So those of us in the market can make meaningful decisions about how to spend our money, in some cases, without having put hands on the camera.

groveChuck said:
All I do know if he's not a generic, gushing Panny fan-boy. Actually, he's a Sony PDW-F350 XDCAM HD owner, so he's coming to it from the Sony side, like you Perrone (plus your Canon, DVX, etc...)
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The only side I have is the side of stuff that works. Like I said, I don't care who's name is on the side of it. If it's good, I'm interested in it. And if it's something I need, I'll try to find a way to get it. Which is why I have cameras from numerous manufacturers. When the DVX was best of breed, I bought one. Same with the EX1, and the Canon DSLR. Maybe this new AF100 will be best of breed also, but the market is a bit young yet. And as mentioned, it's not something I need right now and budgets are tight. But there are a LOT of folks out there "making do" with DSLRs who really need a better solution. The AF100 seems to be a nice fit for them. For others (like me) the DSLRs offer everything they want or need. I take as many still with mine as I do videos. And the AF100 is just not going to step in there and replace that.
 
... and jambredz will win the next horrorfest! :thumbsup:

Wait, i didn't write that! jambredz, stop it! :shocked:
 
I'm wondering if you a a shill or a patsy for Sony or someone cause ther'es been a moaning and a fan boy attitude to your rants for years I believe. Fine, if the camera isn't for you.. why bothering checking out these forums and posting. Just like to me, the EX1 is a loaded anchor with a video like quality that speaks Highschool media department. To each there own, but I can assure you that the AF100 will have it's place and people will buy it. Till then, or till next rant, have a good one.

Also, on the DV mag res charts the AF100 was quoted as comparable in shaprness to the EX1.... but one things for sure, the EX1 is the worst ergonomically designed camera on the planet... except maybe for the EX3... what a beast.
 
Justyn said:
I'm wondering if you a a shill or a patsy for Sony or someone cause ther'es been a moaning and a fan boy attitude to your rants for years I believe.
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Keep wondering. Anyone who's actually paid attention to my posts over time will have seen my comments both good and bad about a multitude of cameras. Including the cameras I own. I don't pull punches. Sorry if that bothers you.


Justyn said:
Fine, if the camera isn't for you.. why bothering checking out these forums and posting.
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Because I have to work with numerous cameras, because I have to work with the footage from numerous cameras, and because the back and forth banter makes me a more informed consumer. Isn't that what the forums are for?


Justyn said:
Just like to me, the EX1 is a loaded anchor with a video like quality that speaks Highschool media department. To each there own, but I can assure you that the AF100 will have it's place and people will buy it. Till then, or till next rant, have a good one.
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The difference between your posts and mine, are that I never ONCE said the AF100 or any other camera is *bad*. That's straight out of 5th grade so let's leave it there. The AF100 will certainly be good for a number of people. Unfortunately, not for me at this time. If you'd like to debate the merits of the AF100, or the EX1 or whatever, I'm happy to do it with you. But not on this thread. Thought hurling insults isn't really going to deepen anyone's knowledge is it?
 
Panasonic has got to love all the bickering over a product that is months away from being shipped..... How can anyone defend or persecute something they've never touched for themselves, much less something that isn't in production? And to get all "puffy-chested" about it........ but that's what forums are for right?(sarcasm)
 
For what it's worth, I almost purchased an EX1 some months ago, untill someone posted a frame grab on an EX users forum. This grab showed some huge artifact problem that keeps coming back under certain circumstances and the funny thing was that it's clearly visible but that those who have an EX1, don't see it or don't want to see it. All the other EX models have the same problem and once you know it's there you keep seeing it. When I saw first footage of the pre-production AF100 I pre-ordered one. I can look up that frame grab if anyone would like that, I probably still have it on my hard disks somewhere.
 
Perrone, I respect that you don't pull punches and that you say what you feel and that's awesome. I just wonder why bother if something isn't for you? Or if you aren't interested or think that it's not what you need. We are filmmakers and not tool geeks and freaks, except in making decisions before we purchase and then in getting to know the tools once we have. That's all, you are completely justified in your beliefs but just wonder why so much time spent on the education of the masses, as opposed to searching for your own truth. That's the gist of this all. This is also why I am not so interested in the DSLR realm as it's too much of a PITA, and the Red camera is a nice idea but I'll leave that to simmer till it's brought to a rolling boil.
 
PerroneFord said:
There are those of us for whom the AF100 brings nothing to the table we need, and very few things we want. About the only thing I'd want to supplement my DSLR with is a 2/3" camera with interchangeable lenses. My EX1 hasn't been out of the case since June. Yea it's worlds shaper (shaper than the AF100 too most likely), and yea I'll have occasional use for it, but not everyone wants or needs a "video camera". Video camera's typically suck at making movies, which is why people with major budgets don't USE video cameras to shoot movies.

The AF100 is a video camera...with a big sensor. Exactly what I'd expect Panasonic to develop and market. It is NOT a digital cinema camera, and a basic look through it's feature set tells you that.

I'm sorry, I just have no need for another video camera. I've got 3 already.
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Many people use video cameras to shoot movies, and the movies look great too - they also use them in huge numbers to shoot things like non-fiction TV of all stripes.
 
Here's the rub - do you think all Hollywood scripts are brilliant, including the one they wrote for Speed Racers? No? Then why do you think all Hollywood DPs are automatically brilliant and all-knowing? They're not. Some are, sure - but Shane in my opinion sounds inarticulate and crass - which fits because 5D video imagery gives you cheap-flash wow that you better not look at too closely.

You guys obsess over the tiny number of pro DPs who use the 5D - but fact remains that the vast majority would never, ever shoot anything that mattered with a DSLR - EVER.
 
Robert Ruffo said:
Here's the rub - do you think all Hollywood scripts are brilliant, including the one they wrote for Speed Racers? No? Then why do you think all Hollywood DPs are automatically brilliant and all-knowing? They're not. Some are, sure - but Shane in my opinion sounds inarticulate and crass - which fits because 5D video imagery gives you cheap-flash wow that you better not look at too closely.

You guys obsess over the tiny number of pro DPs who use the 5D - but fact remains that the vast majority would never, ever shoot anything that mattered with a DSLR - EVER.
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most people here are touchy and will probably attack you for this statement but no matter how much i enjoy the DSLR revolution the simple F.A.C.T. of the matter is that what you just said is 100% true. hell, i'll go even further 90% of DP's in hollywood wouldn't ever even shoot with a damn RED or a digital cam let alone a DSLR.
i read roger deakins and david mullens blogs and it took them a long to even warm up to even TRY OUT a high end digital like alexa/red etc let alone to like it which they still are very guarded against saying any compliments. but DSLR's forget about it, guys like taht don't even answer questions about DSLR's as they generally consider that beneath them!
 
I agree with Perroneford on alot of his reasoning. For me and for what I need, this cam becomes a mutant size Dslr which has a form factor that would still force me to spend additional money for a rail system of some sort. I don't run audio into the cam anyway so no need their and there are a ton of out board dedicated systems that would handle audio better than the af100. I think I can live with the great look of these dslr until someone produces a real codec that I can use without having to tether additional devices to my camera to get it.
 
Robert Ruffo said:
...- but fact remains that the vast majority would never, ever shoot anything that mattered with a DSLR - EVER.
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I don't even think you believe this statement....seriously. If you are talking about feature films....maybe or maybe not. But there has been a great number of commercial work done around the world with these cameras. Tiny number? I can also see a lot of the folks that buy the AF100 still using these DSLRs as "B" cameras. They definitely have their place.
 
Robert Ruffo said:
Here's the rub - do you think all Hollywood scripts are brilliant, including the one they wrote for Speed Racers? No? Then why do you think all Hollywood DPs are automatically brilliant and all-knowing? They're not. Some are, sure -
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I don't think that all Hollywood DPs are brilliant. And I'm not even certain how you made that leap. I do take note when a Hollywood DP is accepted by his or her peers into the ASC, CSC, BSC, etc. Because it means they've produced a body of work that OTHER WORKING PROFESSIONALS feel is significant, and excellent. And to be accepted into the ASC it takes more than one current member to recommend you.

Robert Ruffo said:
but Shane in my opinion sounds inarticulate and crass - which fits because 5D video imagery gives you cheap-flash wow that you better not look at too closely.
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Shane is not being paid to sound articulate, nor is he being paid to be polite. He's being paid to produce imagery. And that he does. So what he uses the 5D? He shot 35mm on We Are Marshall. 35mm on Drumline, 35mm on Swing Vote, and 35mm on Terminator Salivation. So while you're throwing him under the bus for his use of the 5D, maybe you ought to throw him a lifeline for shooting on Arri 35mm cameras. Or do you deem 35mm as another medium to "not look to closely at"?

Robert Ruffo said:
You guys obsess over the tiny number of pro DPs who use the 5D - but fact remains that the vast majority would never, ever shoot anything that mattered with a DSLR - EVER.
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It doesn't matter if it's one guy or 100 guys who shoot on the 5D. I wouldn't care if NONE of them used it. Just like I don't care who uses the EX1, or DVX100, or any other camera. I shoot what I shoot because it works for *ME*, at my level, and at my budget. And I am sorry if you don't care for Shane, but even though I may not agree with a lot the man says, when you've committed the likes of Kevin Costner, Dennis Hopper, Christian Bale, etc. to film on multi-million dollar projects, I've got time to listen to what you say.

I was taught at a very young age to listen to all sides, question everything, and come to my own conclusions. I refuse to be a lemming. If 100 people in a room say Camera "A" is better, and I determine Camera "B" to suit my needs better.. I'm reaching for camera "B" every time. Sadly, there are very few independent thinkers on this forum.
 
hookay...so back to the question at hand lol...


Seriously though guys...this shouldn't get into another camera battle. Its good we are all passionate about what we do...but it shouldnt always have to deteriorate to this.

Learn to light...Shoot with what you can afford ...make beautiful imagary :) ALL these cameras put out good stuff if you do that. done :)
 
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