Anyone Staying with DSLR's?

PerroneFord said:
He didn't say which mode he was in. But his comment of 800 lines with breakup in the 1000 line area... not sure what that means exactly. I'd be inclined to accept his review as saying the AF100 is similarly sharp to an EX1 if it weren't SO biased toward the AF100. I'll wait for an independent review. Not saying the camera isn't as sharp (though it would surprise me) but I just can't take this review seriously.
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well that's up to you though i don't see how he would be biased as to my knowledge the guy is not affiliated with panasonic though I agree the review seems a tad happy go lucky. but he did also say 10stops DR which barry green measured as 10.5 stops on early af100 and which your very own adam wilt measured 10 stops exactly on Ex1 so it seems af100 is at least on par or BETTER than ex1. only problem is it doesn't do 10bit like ex1 but it has a far more robust codec so all in all it seems AF100 will blow the ex1 away
 
Homunculus said:
the recent review posted, the guy tested them on a chart. a 75% complete AF100 equaled EX1's sharpness. both did 800 lines resolution
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That is what he says. I don't care anymore what a bunch of "chosen few" has to say about new equipment, while they are paid for it. The only reviews I read and take into considerations are on b&h page and such sources, where people who paid their hard earned cash write a real user opinions.
BTW- if it's this great- why Panny doesn't post some real footage? After all even RED (which imo is a pinnacle of hype and bs) posted some demo footage from unfinished camera.
 
Well footage has been posted...not by panny but it has been posted.

Anyway back to the subject at hand :)
 
hhmmm.. i was waiting for footage from the panny... and when I finally saw them.

I think I'll pass this one and wait for the next gen 5dmkiii.

I have used the red one, 5d, and i have the 7D.

Among the reasons I'll pass is the reason why I didnt get the GH1 and thats the crop factor which will turn my 50mm to a 100mm. Its just too costly a path for my needs.

I guess the agility the DSLR form factor in size and low light performance has spoiled me a bit.

Its just me, others may have different needs.

Also, Ive done a side by side a 7D with the Red One, so if they can intercut therefore I think for my needs the DSLRs are still gonna hold their own against a 4/3rds sensor from panny.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?208281-7d-with-the-red-one


My clients never, ever asked me what I shoot with.
 
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robertrogoz said:
That is what he says. I don't care anymore what a bunch of "chosen few" has to say about new equipment, while they are paid for it. The only reviews I read and take into considerations are on b&h page and such sources, where people who paid their hard earned cash write a real user opinions.
BTW- if it's this great- why Panny doesn't post some real footage? After all even RED (which imo is a pinnacle of hype and bs) posted some demo footage from unfinished camera.
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wow so you'll trust some 15 year old hobbyist writing a poor B&H blurb over professional DP's and Engineers who are well known through the film community for their knowledge experience and ethics?

as for your second comment. well panny HAS released footage. what do you think all the footage that is available is illegally leaked? Panny gave the prototype cams to several people and gave them permission to release the footage after testing the cam so that is in essence Panny releasing that footage. Why would some inept unartistic product mgr at Panny shoot the footage himself when he has no actual videographic skill when he can hand the camera off to a real professional like Bloom and let HIM shoot the footage and release it.

You DO realize there's like 10 videos of footage already been released right? Did Red have that much footage?
 
Homunculus said:
well that's up to you though i don't see how he would be biased as to my knowledge the guy is not affiliated with panasonic though I agree the review seems a tad happy go lucky. but he did also say 10stops DR which barry green measured as 10.5 stops on early af100 and which your very own adam wilt measured 10 stops exactly on Ex1 so it seems af100 is at least on par or BETTER than ex1. only problem is it doesn't do 10bit like ex1 but it has a far more robust codec so all in all it seems AF100 will blow the ex1 away
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Biased because he got a freebie from Panasonic and had reason to get it. This review is not happy go lucky. This review is as rosy a report as I've ever seen. There is NOTHING amiss with the camera according to this guy, which even the folks on this site have pointed to some flaws with the camera.

I'd also say that the AVCHD codec in the AF100 might be SLIGHTLY better than the codec in the EX1, but "far more robust" is stretching things way out of proportion. 24Mbps AVC is hardly the pinnacle of engineering. We've seen that stuff for years now, and no one is glowing about it. Panny's professional implementation of it is at 100Mbps. If that's what Panny thinks is required to to well into broadcast spec, it really puts that 24mbps into perspective. Meanhwile, The XDCam codec at 50mpbs has been broadcast on most major networks for years. Note I am not saying that 50Mbps of XDCam is equal to or better than 100mbps of AVC. What I am saying is that 24mbps of AVC is probably a bit better than 35Mbps of XDCam, but it's not a world of difference at all...

As for the AF100 blowing the EX1 away, I just don't see it. Both good cameras, with different purpose. I'm still trying to figure out where the AF100 fits. The sensor is too large and DOF too shallow for traditional ENG. It's not 10bit and lacks most digital cinema features, so it lets it out of the mid-range indie market. It costs 6 times what my DSLR did, and very close to what a HPX170 does, so I can't call it a DSLR replacement. What's the market for a $5k shallow DOF video camera with a handful of native lenses?
 
just curious what "digital cinema features" do you claim the af100 is missing? can you please name them as i'm interested to know as I was under the impression it has all the most important digital cinema features
 
Homunculus said:
just curious what "digital cinema features" do you claim the af100 is missing? can you please name them as i'm interested to know as I was under the impression it has all the most important digital cinema features
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1. External Sync
2. Overscanning sensor
3. 10 bit codec
3. RAW or lightly compressed codec
4. 24.00p
5. Standardized DC power options
6. Option for PL mount (this may come later)
7. Optical viewfinder

etc.
 
PerroneFord said:
1. External Sync
2. Overscanning sensor
3. 10 bit codec
3. RAW or lightly compressed codec
4. 24.00p
5. Standardized DC power options
6. Option for PL mount (this may come later)
7. Optical viewfinder

etc.
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huh? i thought cam does 24p and can be mounted with PL mount or do you mean you want it to COME with a free PL Mount? optical viewfinder?? what camera has this? not even red or alexa have that do they?
raw for 4600$ ????
lol come on bro. is this a joke?
 
PerroneFord said:
Biased because he got a freebie from Panasonic and had reason to get it.
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Perrone - I respect your opinion and your posts on this forum - but you might wanna rethink that remark. I know people might not know this website outside of Europe - but he covers a really wide range of equipment and manufacturers. He can't be biased just because he receives a product for review. I may not always agree with the reviews on his site - but I'd have a good look round it first before jumping to conclusions.

As to whether it's as a rosy a report as you've seen - one could argue that he has more integrity by not revealing the flaws of a 75% finished camera.

Would you prefer a review that states the viewfinder is no good - only to discover later, it wasn't the production viewfinder?

Personally, I don't agree with this process of giving out pre-production models for 'review' as these are the kind of problems it causes. But I think you could cut this guy a little more slack.
 
talk about nit picking. funny how the clamor for dslrs are so big but when it came to af100, it gets bashed for not having these extra features at $5000!! EX1 costs more than the af100. If it outperforms the af100, it would be justified. but askign for more features at a price even lower than an EX1 is asking too much. dslrs are not the standard in price comparisons as they're not on the same category as the af100.

af100 is not an ENG cam, period. you can use it as one but its not designed for it. obviously.

also in reply to topic
i would still use dslrs for b-cam or certain specfic shots.
 
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Homunculus said:
huh? i thought cam does 24p and can be mounted with PL mount or do you mean you want it to COME with a free PL Mount? optical viewfinder?? what camera has this? not even red or alexa have that do they?
raw for 4600$ ????
lol come on bro. is this a joke?
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dude.. whered you find it at 4600 :D link plz :P i hope it goes down to 4600 at all stores :D
 
Homunculus said:
huh? i thought cam does 24p and can be mounted with PL mount or do you mean you want it to COME with a free PL Mount? optical viewfinder?? what camera has this? not even red or alexa have that do they?
raw for 4600$ ????
lol come on bro. is this a joke?
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No, the camera does not do 24.00. It does to 23.976. They are different.

And nothing I've said is a joke. The things I've listed are things you'd find on a real digital cinema camera. Not every Digital Cinema camera has all of these, however they all have some mix of them.

My point is not what the Panasonic costs. My point is it's feature set. If the camera lacks the features of a digital cinema camera, then I am not going to call it one, and neither is any professional. By the same token, I could say my T2i is a terrific video camera as it only costs $800 WITH the lens. Does that make it an equal to the AF100? No. Not in numerous respects.

So let's put price aside and call these camera what they actually are. The 5D/7D/60D/550D are not video cameras. And the AF100 is not a digital cinema camera. It is a video camera with a big sensor. For a great many shooters, that is all that is required or desired. And the price is fair. But to pretend this camera is a digital cinema camera (like an F35, Alexa, RED, Viper, D21, etc.) is ludicrous.
 
Joe Shaw said:
Perrone - I respect your opinion and your posts on this forum - but you might wanna rethink that remark. I know people might not know this website outside of Europe - but he covers a really wide range of equipment and manufacturers. He can't be biased just because he receives a product for review. I may not always agree with the reviews on his site - but I'd have a good look round it first before jumping to conclusions.
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Here is my conclusion. He gives a glowing review to the camera and finds no fault. I have not seen a camera made to date, at ANY price that was faultless. So either his review is biased, his review was not thorough, or his review is incomplete for some reason unknown to us. In any of those cases, until such time as I have better data, I will take that review with a HUGE grain of salt. The reviewer might have the utmost integrity. I don't know him from Adam. I can only read what is written on the page.

Joe Shaw said:
As to whether it's as a rosy a report as you've seen - one could argue that he has more integrity by not revealing the flaws of a 75% finished camera.
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That's a tough argument to make from a buyer's perspective. I want the good with the bad. Let ME make the choice on how to process the information at hand. Withholding it because an issue *might* get sorted before shipping seems dubious at best.

Joe Shaw said:
Would you prefer a review that states the viewfinder is no good - only to discover later, it wasn't the production viewfinder?
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Absolutely. If a manufaacturer sends a half-baked product out for review, that falls on them. Not the reviewer. I read plenty of stuff about the EX1 and other cameras that was less than flattering, and many of those issues were resolved prior to shipping. It's when problems are apparent in the cameras, and the reviews leave it out, AND those problems make it into shipping models that I have a problem with. Not a single review of the Canon XF line that I saw said that if you do a last-clip playback, you get no audio. But now that people have spent $6k-$8k on the cameras, its a MAJOR issue. You can't tell if you got good audio on your last take without going into media mode and stopping production? No reviewer thought it might be prudent to point that out?

Joe Shaw said:
Personally, I don't agree with this process of giving out pre-production models for 'review' as these are the kind of problems it causes. But I think you could cut this guy a little more slack.
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Why should I give him slack. Write an honest report on the camera in hand. If it's not finished, state that up front (which he did) and let the chips fall where they may.
 
dcloud said:
talk about nit picking. funny how the clamor for dslrs are so big but when it came to af100, it gets bashed for not having these extra features at $5000!! EX1 costs more than the af100. If it outperforms the af100, it would be justified. but askign for more features at a price even lower than an EX1 is asking too much. dslrs are not the standard in price comparisons as they're not on the same category as the af100.
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No one is bashing the AF100. I happen to think it's a very good and innovative video camera. And I am not nitpicking it AS A VIDEO camera. Though I do struggle to see it's marketplace. But I am certain Panasonic has very talented people who see where they can position it at it's current price point.

The problem with the arguments here is that everyone wants to talk about "price". I could give a damn about what it costs. The Alexa is $80k and it's getting GOBBLED up in it's market like the DSLRs are in theirs. Both cameras bring a lot to the table for their respective markets. But that said, if someone tried to pass off the Alexa as an ENG camera they'd get called out on it. As well they should. It's not made for that purpose and lacks basic functions to do it properly. Similarly, the AF100 lacks certain fundamental features of a digital cinema camera, so calling it one doesn't do anyone any favors.
 
I'm in advertising so I can read/sense/smell marketing pitch all the time and the ones done by barry are, well they might be "reviews" to some but it is also sounds like "marketing", probably this is due to his relationship with panasonic, probably- i'll give that the benefit of a doubt. So when it is the latter(marketing), thats when negatives are avoided as much as possible.
True, its an unfinished cam, but its what the company chose to put out there so its a risk they took.
Watching the interviews, and there are several, on the af100, there is no mention of such negatives -then it becomes/resembles more of a marketing than a review.
 
barry has posted negative on it .. too lazy to look for the thread

hey teddy, i saw a trailer of zamora residence.. i think your brother was a part of this? looks great!
 
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PerroneFord said:
No one is bashing the AF100. I happen to think it's a very good and innovative video camera. And I am not nitpicking it AS A VIDEO camera. Though I do struggle to see it's marketplace. But I am certain Panasonic has very talented people who see where they can position it at it's current price point.

The problem with the arguments here is that everyone wants to talk about "price". I could give a damn about what it costs. The Alexa is $80k and it's getting GOBBLED up in it's market like the DSLRs are in theirs. Both cameras bring a lot to the table for their respective markets. But that said, if someone tried to pass off the Alexa as an ENG camera they'd get called out on it. As well they should. It's not made for that purpose and lacks basic functions to do it properly. Similarly, the AF100 lacks certain fundamental features of a digital cinema camera, so calling it one doesn't do anyone any favors.
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yeah got your point after i replied. and yes i agree but its superficial for me.
 
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