Anyone having card speed issues, please try again without native 24p

Just tried to shoot a bunch of stuff with the 60/62/70/24pN settings, with a GoP of 15. On a Panasonic Class 10 card, it failed always within 4 seconds, and/or as soon as motion like panning started.

This is my first experience with 24pN not working right. I will go back to the "C" settings with 24pN and try that.
 
PappasArts said:
Do we take a quality hit, by not going 24PN- Or is there no difference?
Click to expand...
Since these are just container formats there should not be a quality difference in underlying progressive footage. But then interlaced-wrapper mode takes much higher bitrate settings, so it could be argued that you take a quality hit by enabling 24P and shooting at lower bitrate. This definately needs verification via methodical testing.

44mbits in "C" settings...

With these settings- What is Mbits at?
60000000
62000000
70000000

Pappas
Click to expand...
For some reason the avg bitrates on my test footage are around 1/2 the limiting bitrate setting. Most likely because I don't have enough detail in test scenes. I'm heading out to climb some rock tomorrow, so hopefully I'll be able to test in outdoor conditions.
 
Barry_Green said:
Just tried to shoot a bunch of stuff with the 60/62/70/24pN settings, with a GoP of 15. On a Panasonic Class 10 card, it failed always within 4 seconds, and/or as soon as motion like panning started.
Click to expand...
Hmm, at least you are getting 4 seconds worth of stuff. Would be interesting if you could stop recording before camera freezes and analyze that footage at low level.
 
I got a couple of clips that are one-second or 1.5 seconds long before the camera locked up.

Camera locks up and you can't even turn it off, you have to pull the battery. And doing so, you lose the partial clip.

But I did get a couple of clips...
 
svecher said:
Hmm, at least you are getting 4 seconds worth of stuff. Would be interesting if you could stop recording before camera freezes and analyze that footage at low level.
Click to expand...

Just shoot a ( Star Chart ) full frame from a high res computer monitor. I have always done that to spike a bit rate or do a quick tests for one reason or another. It will usually get you there within 90+ percent of a high detail scene without having to go out and film one every time you need to run a test.

Tip- when focusing on the star chart get the lines to a crispy jaggie dance- move the camera in circular motions as well swaying it, this will get the VBR going. Also if you shoot at 1600 ISO that also with push the bit rate even more when filming the star chart off a screen. This also allows you to shoot a extreme stops like f16 so it's as crisp as its gonna get. Extreme yes, and it ain't pretty, but it works for hitting the codec ceiling for testing.

Pappas


Pappas
 
Barry_Green said:
I got a couple of clips that are one-second or 1.5 seconds long before the camera locked up.

Camera locks up and you can't even turn it off, you have to pull the battery. And doing so, you lose the partial clip.

But I did get a couple of clips...
Click to expand...

Barry try these:

My Settings are:
54.000.000
58.000.000
68.000.000
GOP: 15 - Deselected as it's 15 anyways.
24P NATIVE

No issues at all. I have filmed well over an hour of very crispy details.

I don't know how to check the bit rate of these mts files to see what these numbers are doing.


Pappas
 
svecher said:
Since these are just container formats there should not be a quality difference in underlying progressive footage. But then interlaced-wrapper mode takes much higher bitrate settings, so it could be argued that you take a quality hit by enabling 24P and shooting at lower bitrate. This definately needs verification via methodical testing.


For some reason the avg bitrates on my test footage are around 1/2 the limiting bitrate setting. Most likely because I don't have enough detail in test scenes. I'm heading out to climb some rock tomorrow, so hopefully I'll be able to test in outdoor conditions.
Click to expand...

So your average is 35mbits in low detail?
 
svart is suggesting he can't get any results on any settings using the native patch. i also suggested lowering the values. guess that got overlooked.

or is this now a "i can't use the 24p patch with these settings" question vs the original "I can't use the 24p patch on any settings"
 
Last edited:
Patriot LX class 10 card, tripod, static(no movement at all), high-detail scene(grass), 200 ISO, 0 exposure:

"B" settings
NO native 24p
32,000,000
34,000,000
40,000,000
WORKS OK 1080i and 720p 152.bin /some mud still present.

"B" settings
Native 24p
32,000,000
34,000,000
40,000,000
FAIL card speed error class 6 and 10 after 5 seconds 148.bin

"B" settings
Native 24p
32,000,000
34,000,000
40,000,000
GOP=14
FAIL 1080/720 card speed error after 5 seconds 163.bin

"B" settings
Native 24p
32,000,000
34,000,000
40,000,000
GOP=15
FAIL 1080/720 card speed error after 4 seconds 161.bin


"B" settings
Native 24p
32,000,000
34,000,000
40,000,000
GOP=16
FAIL 1080/720 card speed error after 7 seconds 162.bin

"B" settings
Native 24p
32,000,000
34,000,000
40,000,000
GOP=17
FAIL 1080/720 card speed error after 6 seconds 164.bin
 
Last edited:
Car3o said:
svart is suggesting he can't get any results on any settings using the native patch. i also suggested lowering the values. guess that got overlooked.

or is this now a "i can't use the 24p patch with these settings" question vs the original "I can't use the 24p patch on any settings"
Click to expand...

No, if you read back I said I can't use the Native 24p patch with ANY bitrate settings, INCLUDING the stock settings. How many times do I need to repeat that? That translated says: "i've ALREADY tested ALL STOCK and A/B/C settings and cannot get any of them to work with the Native 24p settings IF the video is of a highly detailed STATIC picture". IF there is any movement in the frame, I can record as long as I want on just about any bitrate up to the limit of the class of card I am recording to. I can also record as long as I want to with just about any bitrate I want to without the Native 24p setting enabled, up to the point where the bitrate is too much for the card, then I get a legitimate card speed error.

Car3o, c'mon man, I'm trying to help out here. Don't try to negate what I'm seeing and trying to report on, that's not helpful to Vitaliy or the other testers.

I just posted my results for the "B" Ptool settings back a few posts.
 
Last edited:
To be clear, I can get 24pN to work, but not on all settings. I'm leaving 24pN off until this all gets cleared up. It's not that huge a deal to me to L&T my shots then throw them into Compressor for pulldown. I've been doing that for months now already anyways.
 
I really wish we knew what the correlation of the settings were to the actual bitrate it ends up shooting at.

Also, does it makes sense that if all 3 settings were identical we'd get constant bitrate? Has anyone tried it?
 
Mike@AF said:
To be clear, I can get 24pN to work, but not on all settings. I'm leaving 24pN off until this all gets cleared up. It's not that huge a deal to me to L&T my shots then throw them into Compressor for pulldown. I've been doing that for months now already anyways.
Click to expand...

Are you using a Sandisk card?

Do you have another, non-sandisk, card to try out with the same settings?

It's a pretty sure bet that there are bitrate spikes that the Sandisk cards can swallow due to their high bitrate ratings, however I just can't accept buying a 90$ card to mask a problem when the problem could be fixed and allow people to use a 20$ card instead.
 
Yes, I'm using 4GB Sandisk Extreme II Class 6 cards. I've been considering buying a couple 32GB or 16GB Extreme III Class 10 cards, but I'm going to wait until there's more conclusive tests showing that going beyond the C settings (which works for me with and without 24pN) actually improves picture quality. Or if some other development with the hack gets rid of banding and/or FPN, 422 in AVCHD (unlikely I'm guessing), and/or 24p in MJPEG and requires a faster card. Right now nothing is conclusive since this is all still being tested and explored, and there's variations in results with even Class 10 cards, so I'm holding off.

Hopefully those prices will start to come down too, which is likely now that there's SDXC.
 
Mike@AF said:
I really wish we knew what the correlation of the settings were to the actual bitrate it ends up shooting at.

Also, does it makes sense that if all 3 settings were identical we'd get constant bitrate? Has anyone tried it?
Click to expand...

That's interesting idea! A constant bit rate- that would great if so.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top