Anyone having card speed issues, please try again without native 24p

S

Svart

Well-known member
I've been having strange card speed errors where I am taking video of a STATIC high detail scene from a tripod.

I get NO card speed errors when hand held or when the scenery moves, such as grass/trees in the wind.

If I capture those same grass/trees when they are perfectly still I get immediate card speed errors with all of my cards regardless of speed.

If I disable native 24p without changing my bitrates, I can capture those same still, high detailed, scenes without card speed errors.

I need people to confirm this before I take it into the main firmware sub-forum.

Thanks
 
I think everyone is having some type of card issue depending and brand and speed. I have been observing this. There was one person that had a 32gb patriot class 10 and had some type of problem and another that had a patriot 16gb class 10 with no problem. Strange but I believe it will depend on the settings you are uploading on ptools. I would like to see a seperate thest thread on memory and showing what settings work for which type of memory card.
 
I'm using a patriot class 10 and Adata class 6.

The problem I see is that if one of them works, they both work. If one fails, they both fail. I have not had a setting work on the class 10 that did not work on the class 6. This is telling me that it's not a card dependent thing. The only reason that the sandisk cards seem to be working is really only a fluke that they can handle extreme(hence the name) high data rates for short periods of time. This is not a *fix*. it's telling us that there is a problem because the sudden large I frames are not within the normal working bitrates, they are much higher.

My last file before I stopped for the night had an average bitrate of 38mbit/s. It recorded fine on both the class 6 and class 10. I used the same bitrate settings and enabled native 24p. Both cards failed with card speed errors about 15 seconds into recording.

This says to me that the spikes in bitrate that overflow the cards (that aren't sandisk 80$+ cards and can't handle the sudden crazy bursts of I frames gone wild) is *potentially* caused by the native 24p settings.

I don't have a way to test this. If I were to post files of the same footage but one had native 24p and the other was 24p-in-60I could someone analyze these and see if they see a difference?
 
It could be card related, because neither brand is recognizable. If you're having problems and people are using Sandisk and Panasonic Class 10 without issue I would test another card that people have used successfully.

What exact settings are the problem? Are you resetting your camera settings before applying hacks? Are the cards working when you lower the bitrate?

I would try resetting your settings to default firmware and then starting from scratch again.
 
In one of my earlier posts I mentioned that no matter what bitrate I run, if I check native 24p and have a perfectly static, high detail, shot I get a card speed error. this happens even with stock settings and pretty much every bitrate that people have tested. It happens for both cards when native 24p is checked and neither card when native 24p is not checked. This is not normal behaviour for any card regardless of brand. i would think if it was card speed related, I would get at least one set of settings that worked on one card and not the other especially as I moved up in bitrate. That is not the case as both cards fail on the same settings or pass on the same settings only depending on whether I have native 24p enabled. Telling me that I need a specific card isn't really a fix, it's a workaround. We were asked to test in order to make this better. Maybe a card like the sandisk can handle the strange large I frames but the real bitrates are well within these card's classes and thus the reasoning I would like to help figure this out.
 
It sounds to me like you have off brand cards. It doesn't matter what a card manufacturer lists for specs, it's marketing bullshi*. They can print Class 10 on the cover and it doesn't mean a thing. It's well known that card speeds often have no correlation to specs when it comes to actual performance.

If you're the only one having severe card errors while everyone else is having occasional errors it's probably card related. Of course you won't know until you buy a more known brand like Sandisk or Panasonic.
 
And it depends on where you buy them from. There are absolutely fakes out there; if you're getting a "great deal" on some card from ebay, you may very well be buying a fake.

The "class" designation is supposed to be a guaranteed minimum write speed, in megabytes per second.

Try running your cards through CrystalDiskMark and see what it reports for write time.
 
Yea I have a Class 10 Patriot and plan on buying the 32gb Sandisk extreme for my GH1 (soon to be GH1.3. Can you tell me best place to buy one?
 
Just tried this and I've had exactly the same result. I'm using a class 6 Transcend 16gb card, but as you say - this isn't really about the card. The odd thing is that it's triggered by static scenes.

I've used the 32mbps AVCHD setting and found it totally stable until now. I'd assumed that you were most likely to get errors with lots of movement since that will increase the bitrate, so I've been whizzing it around and never got a card error. But when I tried your test I got an error in 3 seconds. The error also caused my cam to hang and I had to pull the battery.

I've got a PAL model and I have the native 24/25p option checked. Haven't tried unchecking it yet.

One question - as a PAL user does the native option give me much advantage? I've never really had a problem with the 50i wrapper since there's no pulldown to remove.



So what's going on? Why should a static scene which should need a lower bitrate cause problems?
 
I can confirm an issue with 24pN as well. The 60, 62, 70 settings wouldn't work for me and caused my GH1 to lock up until I removed 24pN. Now it works.
 
Vitaliy suggested that we try changing the GOP length from 12 to 15. Apparently the native 24p setting changes the GOP structure(reduces it) and this is likely to be what is causing the problem.

I'll be testing this after work for sure!
 
Svart said:
Vitaliy suggested that we try changing the GOP length from 12 to 15. Apparently the native 24p setting changes the GOP structure(reduces it) and this is likely to be what is causing the problem.

I'll be testing this after work for sure!
Click to expand...

Definitely report back with your findings, it would be great if this was the reason and not off brand cards as I suggested.
 
Yes of course. There are only a few memory/interface manufacturers out there. Most cards would be designed around a common "reference design" which is supplied as a suggested design from those same manufacturers. This would mean that most cards would be roughly the same in performance except those who specifically state otherwise, like sandisk. You could very well design a card that can handle much higher speeds but it would cost much more and few devices out there necessitate needing those extremely fast cards. Those would occupy a very small market share compared to the more commodity cards that meet the speed class tests but don't necessarily go much over those speeds.

This is why I don't really think an "off-brand" card should make too much of a difference as the majority of the bitrates I've seen being tested on here should fit well within a standard class 10 card if not a class 6's speed rating.

Of course I could be wrong, and that is the purpose of all this testing, to find out what is really going on.
 
So far no GOP setting has been able to make this work for either of my cards. I have tried the range of 10-16. I still get a card speed error for every try.
 
I also bumped the bitrates up to the point where I believe a class 6 should fail to test whether I could get a result where the class 10 would pass but the class 6 would fail, to verify that the settings are actually working.

I WAS able to get the class 6 to fail with card speed error while the class 10 did not with these settings:

64M Simplified
72M overall
80M Limiting

Between these two results I believe there is still a problem with the native 24p setting.
 
Svart said:
Vitaliy suggested that we try changing the GOP length from 12 to 15. Apparently the native 24p setting changes the GOP structure(reduces it) and this is likely to be what is causing the problem.

I'll be testing this after work for sure!
Click to expand...

24PN changes the gop length. I wonder to what? If it was 15 at 60 fields video and 24PN is 36 different frames/fields less.

Would this cut the original gop number in half?

Pappas
 
tried 60,62,70 setting ,GOP not checked , 24p checked .. tested my new sandisk 16gb class 10 30mb/s the gh1 freezes when hitting the record button while in fhd 24p avchd mode I had to take the battery out to make it reset), it records fine in 720p 60 avchd mode..
 
sammysammy said:
tried 60,62,70 setting ,GOP not checked , 24p checked .. tested my new sandisk 16gb class 10 30mb/s the gh1 freezes when hitting the record button while in fhd 24p avchd mode I had to take the battery out to make it reset), it records fine in 720p 60 avchd mode..
Click to expand...

Yeah those settings froze my camera too. Does this also improve the 720P/60. I thought the patch only improved the 1080P?

Pappas
 
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