C300: Anyone else excited about the rumors of the XC20?

M

mizzar

Active member
I have a C300 Mark II that has worked great for me for quite a while. My biggest issue is that I can't really find a cheap b-cam. This kind of makes sense, why would Canon build a camera that can produce the same look as the C300 Mark II (or C200) for significantly less money? Recently there have been rumors of the XC20, stating:

-UHD 4K Output up to 60 fps
-8MP, 1″ CMOS Sensor
-Dual-Pixel CMOS Autofocus Feature
-DIGIC DV 6 Processors
-5-Axis Optical Image Stabilization
-Wide Dynamic Range
-Live Stream/FTP/Remote App via Wi-Fi

The main thing that sticks out to me is Wide Dynamic Range. Any chance it is just a 1" version of the C300 Mark II, C200 and C700 sensor?? Don't answer that (unless you actually know), I want to keep the dream alive. For a b-cam, I don't think I'd mind the fixed lens or other possible tradeoffs as long as it has that same sensor goodness (and Log2!).

If you don't care and/or have no high hopes for the XC20, what do you use as a b-cam for the C300 Mark II or C200. Can you post pictures showing how well they match? If not, can you explain what camera you use and how well/poorly it matches?

Thanks!
 
I would like for Canon to continue developing the XC-series. There's potential there.

Dual Pixel AF is a good upgrade. The XC10-15 was contrast based and not as reliable. Wide DR has been in this camera since the XC10-15 together with Canon Log. In your bullet point list, it might very well be that Canon doesn't talk about the picture profile 'Wide DR' here, but more as a broader concept. But even so, I'm sure this line of cameras starting with the XC10 would qualify for the "wide dynamic rage" label in Canon's view.

What I'd like to see:

  • More ND. At least another level above the 3 stops in there now; maybe a 5-6 stop setting.
  • A better LCD that delivers a more true to life image in outdoor conditions for evaluation. Increasing brightness in the current camera doesn't increase fidelity.
  • A stills mode that gets closer to that of a proper camera. Less shutter lag and better feedback. Raw mode for photos.
  • A constant aperture lens. It's fine to reduce the lenght to around 105-135mm if it can be 2.8 throughout.
  • It's small size is one of its strong points. But I would actually want it slightly bigger in order to increase the sensor size to something closer to MFT. Can still have integrated lens. Would allow for slightly larger handle with more functionality and a larger battery: a mini LP-E19 like in the 1D-series bodies.
  • With a larger size, maybe a few additional buttons. Even one more counts. A second wheel for the thumb.
  • There should to be an AE-lock function in the menu that you can assign to your buttons. And in that mode the finger wheel would act as exposure compensation. I have my own workaround for this, but it should be more accessible.
 
The news actually bums me out, because I just won an auction for XC10 on eBay. My plan is to use it as a better quality GoPro to accompany my C100. Then again, for $1100, I can't really complain. The new model will be at least $2500.
 
Without owning one I have a soft spot for the XC10

Its just nice looking in the chimney like a rollei/mamiya

Whats needed?

Actual 24mm FF FOV
XLR in sensible place
Lens that is not like dishwater to manually focus.

And stick with a high data rate

Simples.
 
I rented out the xc10 and xc15 a couple of times.. just never loved it enough to buy. I used the gh4 as my B for my c100 up until last year, when I started using the gh5 as b for the c200. Every now and then there's the 5dm4 and gopro shots mixed in too.
 
Ruggerpro said:
I rented out the xc10 and xc15 a couple of times.. just never loved it enough to buy. I used the gh4 as my B for my c100 up until last year, when I started using the gh5 as b for the c200. Every now and then there's the 5dm4 and gopro shots mixed in too.
Click to expand...

How does it match? Do you use them for interviews where you cut back and forth between skin tones quickly? Can you post example images?
 
I owned the XC10 for a bit in 2015...ended up selling it very quickly.

Add it to the list of cameras that look awesome on paper (with a nice size and tons of features), but at the end of the day the quality is weak, IMO.

For someone coming from SD/HD it may be amazing, but it's soft compared to other 4K offerings. They need to remove the lens and change a lot about the camera (some of it is mentioned above), but then it would become a different product and probably wouldn't cost the same.
 
I would buy it immediately if it had an f/2.8 lens and was the same general weight. Right now, my XC15 lives on a Zhiyun Crane, but it just can't keep up at f/5.6 in many indoor shoots. I would also love one extra button or dial. That's about it.
 
There is a rumored XC ILC camera. I would bet money it won't be FF if it actually exists. I would actually be really happy if it had the EF-M mount. I would love to put the little EF-M 22mm on the camera.
 
I love the size of the XC15, like others mentioned a wider, faster, and constant aperature lens would be brilliant.
if they allowed it to shoot 4K 10bit 4:2:2 internally it would be a killer run and gun camera (probablly wont happen)
The dual pixel AF and IBIS is a big deal in this market. I agree they need to improve the LCD and add more ND plus
some more function buttons.
If the XC20 improves it's DR and Log recording it will give the GH5/s a run for it's money (despite the fact it's not interchangeable)
and would make a great C200/300 B-Cam

If Panasonic does not release a new DVX300 or GH5 model with a smaller and lighter and broadcast/run and gun form factor I can see
myself investing in a XC20 (once they improve the lens and other specs)


DVX300 V2.jpg

DVX300.jpg
 
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still no viewfinder!

audio in/outs?

4k would be great but give us some basic tools.

ymmv

be well.

rob
smalltalk/productions/nyc
 
robfilms said:
still no viewfinder!

audio in/outs?

4k would be great but give us some basic tools.

ymmv

be well.

rob
smalltalk/productions/nyc
Click to expand...


The XC15 has an audio input that works is compatible with the C300 II. I would guess that they would keep the assembly. It has always had 4K. It does have a viewfinder attachment for what it is worth.
 
For the next fixed lens XC__ camera to really succeed, they need:
- a 2.8 equivalent zoom from 24-135/150mm FF equivalent atleast with ridiculously good IS.
- Some degree of increased ND, (perhaps with a 6 or 8 stop variable ND element built into the rear of the lens if they can't fit a wheel in the body of the camera)
- 1DXii level touchscreen Dual pixel AF with the increased screen maneuverability. Perhaps an option to use the C200 LM-V1 touchscreen also for those wanting to rig some more custom.
- Rec 709, WideDR, C-log and C-log3 profiles which can match the C300ii/C200 very closely.
- A decent enough 120fps in 1080p.
- SD cards only. There's no physical need for Cfast 2.0 on any of the XC cameras and it just adds unnecessary cost/complexity for prosumers.
- Same XFAVC 422 8bit codec the XC10/15 has, plus the C200 mp4 codecs for increased run time.
- Current MA-400 bundled with camera.
- Raw CR.2 12mp photo mode
- Wifi with browser remote support - that's just a little wish of my own.

For an ILC version of the camera, I'd hope they consider using a 12-16mp APSC sensor with a lot of similar in-camera features and hopefully in body IS. Would obviously cost a bit more than the current models.
 
I believe you need a Cfast card to handle the big boy 4K that the XC records...just like the C300 MK II...

Jim Martin
CinemaWorks
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Don't the GH5 and EVA-1 record equally high 4K bit rates to SD cards?
Click to expand...
Yes Eric....but with the XCs & C300 MK II, Canon built their system around the Cfast cards...and I believe the higher rate SDXCs and SDXC IIs were developed after Canon chose the Cfast cards to handle their codec.......I think!

Jim Martin
CinemaWorks
 
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