Any reason to keep MXF files, FCP user.

Jimmy Moss

Jimmy Moss

Well-known member
I was wondering if there is any advantage to keeping MXF files. As you know when you use FCP you have to convert to quicktime before you edit, so your footage ends up taking twice as much space. I know you might want to keep them because you might want to edit natively on a PC but other than that, is there any advantage?

It sounds like raylight is the best solution. Am I wrong?
 
Future versions of FCP might support MXF natively. The MXF files contain LOT of metadata that FCP ignores and tosses. Quicktime converted files are notorious for not working well in later updates of FCP.

Raylight is a darn good solution, but not necessarily the best. There are several "bests." Depends on your situation.
 
You should always keep copies of everything that came on the P2 cards: the MXF files, the various folders, the text document - everything.

As an editor, I've been screwed over several times by so called "data wranglers" who thought that making quicktimes in FCP would be good enough.

If your quicktime file gets corrupted for some reason, having a backup of all your files means that you can always reimport and create new quicktimes in FCP.

Additionally, MXF is the native media format for Avid which can be run on PC or Mac.
 
You you throw away your original negative when you shoot a feature???

Don't think so...

Keep it all and back it up..

Cheers
 
Also remember that when you log and transfer (i.e., create QT files), it's easy to forget whether you've converted each clip in its entirety.

If you toss your MXF files, you can't go back later and rectify that.
 
Not to mention it leaves open the door of exchanging native MXF with other editors on a PC or using Premiere CS3 for example.

Noah
 
The p2 volumes are like short tapes. In fact they are your source tapes.

We use redundant HDD backup with a wiebetech ultradock v.4
 
If I was to advise an FCP user who was concerned about space, I'd say get Raylight and quit converting to Quicktime files at all. That way you keep only the original MXFs, you speed up your workflow, and you maintain the ability to exchange files cross-platform.

Rather than only keeping the quicktimes, I'd say ditch the whole quicktime import process, get Raylight (or HD Log or whichever Imagine product does the same thing) or that new MXF importer program Noah pointed us to, and use the MXF files instead of converting to Quicktime.
 
Thanks guys, looks like all solid advice.

P2 is cheaper than the $11 pro HDV tapes I use per hour of footage (720p that is), until you factor in that you need twice as much space to convert to quicktime.

So Raylight, HD log, ect. What are the other programs that let you edit MXF in FCP?

This makes me want to learn Adobe more.
 
The only ones I know of are:
Raylight
HD Log (Gold, maybe? Not sure which version)

Another program that's just come out (or is just now launching, not sure) is http://mxf4mac.com/products/. Don't know anyone who's used it yet, but it looks promising.

FCP is the only one of the major editors that doesn't have MXF support, all others (including Avid and CS3 on the Mac, and Avid, CS3, EDIUS, SpeedEdit on Windows) have native MXF support. For that reason alone, keeping the files as MXF would give you cross-platform and cross-program compatibility.

Vegas on Windows doesn't have native support, but Raylight extends it to allow for native support.
 
Hey Barry,

Has HD Log fixed their annoying "flaw" of not letting any clip go over 6 minutes in length.

My first experience with the HVX200 was two summers ago when I was directing a fairly high budget P.S.A. I ended up rolling the cameras for up to 13 minutes at a time in order to coax a performance out of an "actor" the client was forcing us to use.

What I didn't know at the time was that our Data Wrangler was offloading our P2 cards with HD Log, creating quicktimes that he assumed were full length, and then deleting the original MXF files. Well, it turns out that HD Log cut off the ends of all of our long takes, and since the MXF files were deleted, we were screwed. There was no money to reshoot, and I was forced to make do with my shortened takes.

I assume that HD log has fixed this problem by now, but I'd run tests before I used it again.

The moral of the story, of course, is to never, never delete the MXF files.
 
I don't use the Mac, so I don't deal with these issues. I would assume that in the intervening two years they've fixed whatever spanned-clip issue they had, but I can't say for sure.

Just be aware that the whole process of converting to quicktimes is now optional, there are at least three ways that you can go to avoid that process.
 
Barry_Green said:
If I was to advise an FCP user who was concerned about space, I'd say get Raylight and quit converting to Quicktime files at all. That way you keep only the original MXFs, you speed up your workflow, and you maintain the ability to exchange files cross-platform.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...you mean work with the ORIGINALS? Kinda dangerous don't you think? Lose that hard drive and all is lost. Even if I use Raylight, I'd back up my original MXF files. But this is why I also have NO reservations about importing the footage with FCP or HD LOG. This way I can name the footage too.

Even if I was in a rush, I'd NEVER edit originals.
 
I edit originals all the time. But there's nothing that says you shouldn't have a backup, I back up too.

The point is that you can have the original MXFs and backup MXFs. There's really no good reason to convert to Quicktimes at all, and plenty of reasons not to convert to them. Unless you don't want to spring for one of the aforementioned programs, of course.
 
Jim2000 said:
at the time was that our Data Wrangler was offloading our P2 cards with HD Log, creating quicktimes that he assumed were full length, and then deleting the original MXF files.
Click to expand...

How the hell did that guy get the job? That is a HUGE case in point for NEVER getting rid of your original files. Ever. They are your source tapes. Do you capture your tapes as QTs, then throw them away?

Barry Barry Barry...ever the Mac hater. I have never had issues importing with my Mac. Never had issues with backing up on the Finder level. Never had issues nor bothered by importing the footage from MXF to Quicktime. Often when people complain that they are having issues it is due to pilot error and unfamiliarity with the workflow (previous post being a case in point).

You constantly slamming the Mac workflow is getting old. It works. It works well. and there are MANY tools out there to fulfill many of the workflows that you want to impliment. FCP will support MXF natively in future versions. If you don't like the Mac workflow...then don't use it. You don't, so that is fine. But slamming it as impractical on every front is just plain wrong.
 
Shane Ross said:
Barry Barry Barry...ever the Mac hater.
Click to expand...
Nope. I just hate the arrogance that Apple seems to have against its customers... :)

I have never had issues importing with my Mac.
Click to expand...
Yet hundreds have reported issues.

Never had issues with backing up on the Finder level.
Click to expand...
Yet hundreds have reported the "glitch."

Never had issues nor bothered by importing the footage from MXF to Quicktime.
Click to expand...
Fine, no problem with that, if you're happy then you're happy. It sure does seem that there's a better way though. But, if you don't need it, you don't need it. Not needing the better way doesn't mean that the better way isn't better though, does it?

Often when people complain that they are having issues it is due to pilot error and unfamiliarity with the workflow (previous post being a case in point).
Click to expand...
That is absolutely true.

You constantly slamming the Mac workflow is getting old. It works. It works well. and there are MANY tools out there to fulfill many of the workflows that you want to impliment. FCP will support MXF natively in future versions. If you don't like the Mac workflow...then don't use it. You don't, so that is fine. But slamming it as impractical on every front is just plain wrong.
Click to expand...
Where did I slam it as "impractical"? The vast majority of HVX users are using it. Obviously it works. Doesn't mean that it's the best way though, and whether you're encountering problems or not doesn't mean that others aren't encountering them.

Why do you say FCP "will" support MXF natively in future versions? Do you have some concrete info about that? In my talks with people at Apple, they'd rather see hell freeze over than support an alternative file format (which, by the way, is where much of my frustration comes from).
 
Of the people having these issues, what machine configuration were they using? MacBook Pros with the Duel Systems Adapter? Camera hooked up to the computer? P2 Gear? Most of the issues I have seen stem from people using the Duel Systems and MBPs.

I don't see that Apple has anything against it's customers. Sure, the Log and Trasnfer does ignore a good..well, 95% of the metadata...but not many people need that metadata. For those that do, there are other solutions.

Concrete evidence that Apple will support it? No...and if I did I couldn't really disclose that information. But I do find it interesting that if you install P2CMS you can open the MXF files in Quicktime, and import them into FCP and they work. Audio and Video are separate, but they work now.

The meta data support is disappointing, especially when we take so much time and effort setting it up.

And sorry, I might be coming off a bit grumpy. Worked at the Panasonic booth for two days in the 106 degree heat at CineGear at Universal. I'm beat. And glad that I am an editor who gets to work in an air conditioned office all day long.
 
Never had issues with backing up on the Finder level.

Yet hundreds have reported the "glitch."




I followed your post about proper offloading of P2 cards to the Mac. Can you still not drag and drop backup MXF files onto another drive after you get it off the card? Seems strange that it would cause any problems as long as you drag he whole folder. If there is a problem, how do you backup MXF properly? Use P2CMS?

After looking over the post again, I think I miss read it. Disregard.
 
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