C100: Any feasible alternative to a Zacuto Gratical for a C100 shoulder rig?

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drummondb

Well-known member
So I've been tinkering on creating a shoulder rig for my C100's for years, and I still can't make it work for a reasonable price. I'm trying to make either a Blade II or a BMD Video Assist 5" + Grid 5.0 loupe work as an EVF, but they just seem too big and unwieldy.

Do I have to bite the bullet and buy a Gratical?
 
hscully said:
The Alphatron is pretty good and I have seen some used ones out there for a good price.
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Would second the Alphatron. A bit dated, six years old now and maybe and not the highest res in the world but pretty decent (uses an iPhone 4 Retina display') The Alphatron is super flexible and pretty well optioned with false color, zebras, frame markers, aspect ratios etc. Has a assignable buttons for different menu functions. It has both SDI and HDMI in and can cross convert between the two. I've hung onto mine because in certain lighting situations, bright sun behind you, it is a live saver with mirrorless cams and even very useful on cameras like the new Sony Z280 where it transforms those sorts of cams to more of an ENG type layout. As previously mentioned some pretty decent Alphatrons out there for reasonable prices.

More Here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGFAEUR7JFk

Chris Young
 
I found a used Z-Finder Zacuto EVF Pro with hood for a good price. It seems a very good match for this generation of HD cameras. A single Canon LP-E6 battery goes most of a day, good resolution for focus, a good magnifying hood, easy to look at.

https://www.zacuto.com/zfinderevf

I’m not a huge fan of the focus & exposure overlays, I’ve found myself looking at Zebras or WVF on-camera (which are great!) for exposure monitoring, using the Zacuto for composition, focus, and audio monitoring. It could be that I’d like the focus peaking better if I spent time to learn to tweak the settings.

I’ve not worked with Alphatron or the Gratical...

It suits my style of shooting, your mileage may vary!
 
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SethB said:
I found a used Z-Finder Zacuto EVF Pro with hood for a good price. It seems a very good match for this generation of HD cameras. A single Canon LP-E6 battery goes most of a day, good resolution for focus, a good magnifying hood, easy to look at.

https://www.zacuto.com/zfinderevf

I’m not a huge fan of the focus & exposure overlays, I’ve found myself looking at Zebras or WVF on-camera (which are great!) for exposure monitoring, using the Zacuto for composition, focus, and audio monitoring. It could be that I’d like the focus peaking better if I spent time to learn to tweak the settings.

I’ve not worked with Alphatron or the Gratical...

It suits my style of shooting, your mileage may vary!
Click to expand...

Same here, I found an EVF Pro demo at Zacuto for $400.00, it was too good of a deal to pass up. Not nearly as good as the Graticals but also 1/4 the cost.
It's okay, good enough to judge focus and exposure but it lacks all of the tools you really need. Also, it doesn't have any LUT capability if you are shooting Log.
It's good enough for the few occasions I operate shoulder mounted. If you are going to operate shoulder mounted a lot, do yourself a favor and spend the money
on the Gratical, they are worth it.
 
Ive been operating my FS7 with a DP502 and hood for years now - placed very much in EVF position for shoulder work.

If you are on a budget you could try the feelworld 5in monitor and get a hood.

(I would not suggest the 502 as being worth the extra cash!)
 
I have both the Alphatron and Graticle HD. When I bought my C300 the Alphatron was the best available option. I tried a loupe with the Canon pod monitor, but the "bolt-on" loupes are not good for my style of operating, they're big, bulky, you can never get them positioned just right or move/adjust them quickly and the image is too big(even with your eye pressed all the way against the loupe, it's hard to see the entire image, because it goes slightly beyond the edges and you have to scan with your eye more than on most normal VF's). So I bought the Alphatron and it was worth the money. At the time. I saw the prototype of the Graticle HD at NAB and was extremely impressed. I pre-ordered with one of my reps. As soon as I received the Graticle, the Alphatron got demoted. It would go out on rentals with the C300, but when I operated, the Graticle is what I used(use). I also kept the Alphatron as a back-up, because I'm part pack-rat. I had to revert to the Alpha earlier this year when I had to have my Graticle repaired. I didn't realize how inferior the Alpahatrons image really is in today's world. I struggled to focus, even with peaking, because the image is so soft compared to the OLED. And something else I had forgotten about, there is a bad reflection inside from the monitor panel to the optics. You get a green ghost/flare moving around in it. About the only thing the Alphatron has that I like, is the ability to flip the eyepiece up so you can view the panel directly if you need to quickly pull the camera off your shoulder and perform a low or weird angle shot and can't be "in the viewfinder". I'm also too old to use a monitor as a VF. I can't focus on anything like a small monitor that close with my contacts in(wait until you hit your mid-30's/early 40's. Your up-close vision goes bye-bye).

My .02, the Graticles are the best third party VF options out there that I'm aware of.
 
I was asking myself the same question a few months ago and looked at everything mentioned above, but ultimately settled on the lesser-known F&V SpectraHD. It's pretty large, but it has all of the features of a much more expensive EVF (there's a firmware update that adds waveform and anamorphic monitoring). Found a used one on eBay for $300 and I haven't looked back.
 
I bought a used Zacuto EVF (be sure to get the flip version) on ebay for $260. They are regularly sold in the $250-$350 range on ebay. It's not the Graticle, but if all you need is HDMI, it has plenty of features and reasonable resolution. If you're an eyeglass wearer like me, you may need some of the extender frames to see the full screen.
 
I use a SmallHD 501 and Sidefinder. I actually have a spare one I need to sell off. Complete 501/Sidefinder setup.
 
drummondb said:
So I've been tinkering on creating a shoulder rig for my C100's for years, and I still can't make it work for a reasonable price. I'm trying to make either a Blade II or a BMD Video Assist 5" + Grid 5.0 loupe work as an EVF, but they just seem too big and unwieldy.

Do I have to bite the bullet and buy a Gratical?
Click to expand...

Why don't you get an EZ rig minimax instead? You can use your preferred monitors while keeping the camera small by not having to add shoulder and EVF mounts.
 
puredrifting said:
Have you used this Rob? I've always wanted to rent one to try it.
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Not the minimax, only larger EZ rigs. I plan on adding one in the new year though, will report back. Chris f uses one if you're after more thorough feedback.

The EZ rig minimax is WAY cheaper than their Vario model! This to me is one of the great things about our small cameras - all the support is smaller. 75mm vs. 100/150mm (or 100mm vs. 150mm), one person can move dana dolly set up vs. three, 20 lbs of weight on the jib vs. 50 etc. etc. I know this isn't news to you but it's an overlooked benefit of the c-series cameras.

At the same time, I completely understand some have the need for a true shoulder mounted cam.
 
rob norton said:
Not the minimax, only larger EZ rigs. I plan on adding one in the new year though, will report back. Chris f uses one if you're after more thorough feedback.

The EZ rig minimax is WAY cheaper than their Vario model! This to me is one of the great things about our small cameras - all the support is smaller. 75mm vs. 100/150mm (or 100mm vs. 150mm), one person can move dana dolly set up vs. three, 20 lbs of weight on the jib vs. 50 etc. etc. I know this isn't news to you but it's an overlooked benefit of the c-series cameras.

At the same time, I completely understand some have the need for a true shoulder mounted cam.
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Thanks, will stay tuned for your experience with it. I am 100% in alignment with you about small cameras, I've always been a fan and my mantra has always been smaller, lighter, cheaper but with higher quality and we are finally there.
My C200 is a dream, shooting 4K RAW in such a small and inexpensive package. Young shooters have no idea how spoiled they are today. I recall the days of my 26-30lb Betacam, running through deep sand, shooting the Miller Light MVP
Volleyball finals in Manhattan Beach, Ca. and at the end of the day I had blood that seeped through the pores of my shoulder from the weight, aggravated by running and chasing the action, it had soaked my shirt and stained the shoulder pad of my Betacam.
We've come a long way since then. I'm in my 50s and don't suffer from debilitating back pain and injuries but I know plenty of camera ops my age who do have terrible backs from lugging heavy cameras in their youth.
 
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After years of shooting with the C-cams, I firmly believe they are MEANT to be operated with the EVF jammed up on your face. I get very natural shots that way. The problem is, obviously, you are holding the entire weight out in front of you, often hunched over.

Tripods with nice heads work great with the obvious limitations.

I just can't get a shoulder configuration work well, and to keep tinkering, I forsee massive cost and compromise and added weight.

I've had great success with one of these pole things stuck into a belt (someone on this board suggested it; don't remember who). Great footage, but I look like a right knob. I can naturally operate it for hours with little fatigue: https://youtu.be/Bid6d6FiK18

The Easyrig seems similar to the dumb SteadyStick thing--it allows you to operate the camera easily with the built-in EVF at your eye, but it draws a lot of attention.

Are the C-cams just not built for non-tripod operation?
 
puredrifting said:
Have you used this Rob? I've always wanted to rent one to try it.
Click to expand...

rob norton said:
Not the minimax, only larger EZ rigs. I plan on adding one in the new year though, will report back. Chris f uses one if you're after more thorough feedback.

The EZ rig minimax is WAY cheaper than their Vario model! This to me is one of the great things about our small cameras - all the support is smaller. 75mm vs. 100/150mm (or 100mm vs. 150mm), one person can move dana dolly set up vs. three, 20 lbs of weight on the jib vs. 50 etc. etc. I know this isn't news to you but it's an overlooked benefit of the c-series cameras.

At the same time, I completely understand some have the need for a true shoulder mounted cam.
Click to expand...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?362851-Easyrig-Vario-5-Group-Buy-over-at-RU
 
drummondb said:
I just can't get a shoulder configuration work well, and to keep tinkering, I forsee massive cost and compromise and added weight.
Click to expand...

I've reluctantly put together a shoulder rig for my C200. When I have to add a streaming box, it just pushes it over the weight I can handhold. To get it to work for extend periods of time, I have to add a 5 lb weight to the back. Otherwise my right forearm gets exhausted quickly from holding too much of the weight. It is definitely steadier for telephoto shots and eliminates the Z-axis wobble that really bothers me, but at the same time is very limiting for shot angles. I just feel constrained when I use it. With the added weight the the rig is probably about 18 lbs. It's really hard to hold above your head. I rest part of it on the top of my head to get those shots. My latest filming was a rally, followed by a march, followed by another rally. I don't think I could have accomplished it any other way as I had to be mobile and had to stream parts of it. Now if the C200 were about 2.5 lbs lighter, I think the calculation would be different.
 
brettsherman said:
I've reluctantly put together a shoulder rig for my C200. When I have to add a streaming box, it just pushes it over the weight I can handhold. To get it to work for extend periods of time, I have to add a 5 lb weight to the back. Otherwise my right forearm gets exhausted quickly from holding too much of the weight. It is definitely steadier for telephoto shots and eliminates the Z-axis wobble that really bothers me, but at the same time is very limiting for shot angles. I just feel constrained when I use it. With the added weight the the rig is probably about 18 lbs. It's really hard to hold above your head. I rest part of it on the top of my head to get those shots. My latest filming was a rally, followed by a march, followed by another rally. I don't think I could have accomplished it any other way as I had to be mobile and had to stream parts of it. Now if the C200 were about 2.5 lbs lighter, I think the calculation would be different.
Click to expand...

I have found that the key is the Zacuto VCT Pro baseplate, you need a way to move the C200 forward and backward to achieve balance and the VCT Pro allows you to do so. If your picture in your avatar is the rig, you are fighting gravity. Adding weight to the overall rig to balance seems very counterintuitive to me, the key to being able to shoot all day on your shoulder and to be able to lift above your head for an occasional shot is reducing weight, not increasing it. The C200 on the VCT Pro plate, I use the Tilta Arri rosette to Arri arm, the Shape cable and either the stock LCD screen with a Hoodman H400 or my Zacuto EVF Pro on an extension arm.

It's workable. No V-Mount, no huge weight. I could mount the streaming box easily at the rear of the VCT Pro baseplate with rods. I use the BP-A60 and it keeps the weight down, unless you have to have D-Tap to power the streaming box? When I switch lenses, I just slide the C200 on it's baseplate to balance, the heavier the lens, the further back the camera moves. It can end up being ridiculously far back with heavy lenses but at least it's balanced. But putting the C200 that far back makes it nearly impossible to access the buttons and controls while it's on your shoulder. The C cameras are terrible shoulder mounted cameras, I tried to make it work for my current two documentaries and just gave up, I shoot cradled now and it's much better. But I don't have to have a streaming box so I get it.
 
I've never liked operating from my shoulder. The extra stability is really nice, but I feel like it's really limiting unless you're doing a narrative that has a lot of standing dialogue scenes and need the extra height.

Depending on the project I either fly the camera as light as possible or I load it up a bit and use my EasyRig Mini-Max - either way I'm almost always cradling it as shown in this photo:
chris-francis-about-me-02.jpg

I just finished a 2-day shoot at a conference with that set up (sans wireless transmitter + SmallRig's VCT Shoulder Plate) and it was great for using handheld and with my gimbal. When I first got my EasyRig I felt like I had a huge sign over my head that said "Look at this weirdo!", but now I just pretend that it's my jersey and I wear it because I'm a serious professional (and it does help me get into "game mode"). To my surprise almost nobody that I am filming pays any attention to it. Sure I can hear people way off to the side whispering about it, but they're usually amused/impressed. Using it for doc stuff in a live environment for the past 2 days I can honestly say that it had zero negative impact as a distraction on a cinema verite style shoot.

Unlike operating from the shoulder I can go as high as the bar above me (higher than my shoulder) or I can bring it below my waist or lower if I bend over. I prefer the flexibility of not missing a shot because of my gear choice since I operate in a lot of live documentary environments where blocking and rehearsing isn't an option.

One last note - in my opinion wider shots / wider lenses look way better and more natural from about the waist or slightly higher. As you go longer on the lens, the higher up you bring the camera. I wouldn't want to be shoulder height until I was at least at 50mm if not longer. On my most recent shoot every time I liked my framing I looked down to see where I was at and I was almost always in the 40-45mm range about chest high.

For the price compared to the big boys, I think it's a total no-brainer.
 
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