Another DVX vs XL2 question, but wait!!!!

Kindredmachine

Kindredmachine

Well-known member
OK, I’m on the verge of ripping the hair our of head and REALLY need some help. This is yet another DVX100B vs XL2 question but please hear me out. We’re beginning work on a new DVD series so we're getting all new equipment. Here's the details:

1. The video is going to be primarily documentary style outdoor filming with lot of walking, moving and zooming.

2. There will also be some stationary indoor filming as we interview different researchers and scientists with a black backdrop and lighting.

3. The entire series will be in NTSC 4:3 aspect ratio; no exceptions.

I ordered a DVX100B to play with (which just showed up today) and I think the video looks fantastic but since we’re also considering using an XL2 for the project I have 2 MAJOR concerns before I make a final decition.

1. Because we do so much movement during our productions, image stabilization is a HUGE deal. How does the OIS on the DVX100B compare to the XL2? Is it about the same?

2. I know very little about lenses, so is the wide-angel lens on the DVX better than the standard 20X lens on the XL2 for 4:3 video?

We’ll be leaving for Israel, Columbia and other areas within the next few months so I really have to make the right decision soon. I REALLY appreciate any and all info and opinions regarding this matter. Thank you all very much!
 
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Good sir, your are coming to all DVX/HXV forum asking a question like this. Im not going to be bias, But If i was shooting a Doc, and if you are going to be doing qalking around, you will like the shoulder mount of the XL2, but I would hate the weight. having used xl2s on mult shoots, I never was a huge fan. For reliability the DVX is known for being a Tank, but canons also do good, I rarely use ois on my dvx, using Canon EOS slr cameras i love the IS lenses, so that to me is equal. If 16:9 is not the deal, then the XL2s sensor being 16:9 is useless, so the dvx will do fine, I have found XL2s being battery hogs, but the XL2 has a cleaner, less noisy image. they both get quite wide lens wise.

hope that helps

Jon
 
My advice is rent an XL2 and do some side by side testing.
No amount of opinion from other people is going to help as much as being able to shoot with both cameras and seeing which suits your needs better.
 
Jon Neely said:
Good sir, your are coming to all DVX/HXV forum asking a question like this. Im not going to be bias, But If i was shooting a Doc, and if you are going to be doing qalking around, you will like the shoulder mount of the XL2, but I would hate the weight. having used xl2s on mult shoots, I never was a huge fan. For reliability the DVX is known for being a Tank, but canons also do good, I rarely use ois on my dvx, using Canon EOS slr cameras i love the IS lenses, so that to me is equal. If 16:9 is not the deal, then the XL2s sensor being 16:9 is useless, so the dvx will do fine, I have found XL2s being battery hogs, but the XL2 has a cleaner, less noisy image. they both get quite wide lens wise.

hope that helps

Jon
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I appreciate the information, but are you telling me you really dont know if the OIS on the one camera is better than the other?

Also, what do you mean by "they both get quite wide lens wise". Are you stating that the lens view is the same with the DVX and XL2?

Oh, FYI: we use those shoulder harness/handle brackets for shooting so the camera being shoulder mounted or not really has no affect on the filming :-)
 
I don't believe you would be happy with either camera if you are relying on OIS to give you a stablized image. Especially if you are shooting progressive. I do not know if there is any info on the difference in that area of the camera's. The XL2 is a small shoulder mount camera, which would help in the stablized image. However with the DVX you have an array of shoulder mount options with third party items. I would suggest searching that relm more so than relying on OIS..... Good luck.
 
Ois is more of a small time solution to a moving camera, like said before, if you want steady footage, get a steadycam, One impressive allaround camera I would look at also is the canon A1, you said you need just 4:3, but the image can be croped an down rezed, the A1 is close to the DVX price, and about equal to an xl2 by now,(I remember when the XLs where 8gs). But all the other advice from other members is great also so take in what they are saying.

Jon
 
OIS is completely useless for handheld work. It's designed to correct minor movement at the telephoto end of the lense and does nothing when you handhold it.
 
I already picked up a shoulder mount system for the DVX just in case we ended up using it. I just a couple of tests panning around a subject and hold a distant object in center with an XL1 (we dont have an XL2 yet) and of course the DVX100BP that just shwoed up and it seemed that the XL1 did a superb job of keeping everything smooth and steady while the DVX was really jumpy. This is what started this entire thing to begin with. If it's not the OIS, then maybe it's simply because of the size/weight of the 2 cameras, the DVX might move aroundmore because it's so much lighter and easier to manipualte while doing haldheld shooting? I'm going to do some tests with the shoulder mounts today with it...
 
I own both a DVX100a, and an XL2.

Your questions are valid, and I think it's really just going to come down to personal preference, as both the cams would work.

In my opinion:

1. Yes, the Canon's OIS is MUCH more stable than the DVX, and you'll probably get more stable footage out of it (especially if you'll be zoomed in at all).

2. With a shoulder rig and harness, and a little practice, you should be able to get good results with the DVX.

3. The wide angle on the canon's 20x lens sucks balls. If in a room smaller than 15-20ft wide, expect to not have a very big field of view at all.

4. The Canon is not nearly as reliable as the DVX, and for support, you HAVE to send it directly to one of the Canon service center's (there's only two:one in cali, and one in NY I think).

Now, that last #4 is a big deal for me, and the sole reason for me swearing to never buy another canon again (I've owned MANY over the last couple of years). It seems something is always a tad "off" with the XL1/XL2 cameras, and Canon purposely makes it nearly impossible to do anything with the camera yourself. They do NOT allow any access to their parts via third party dealers, etc, either, and they overcharge for small repairs that should be user accessible (The main fuse on my XL2 just blew one day for absolutely no reason, and they wanted to charge me $412 just to look at it)

When it's all said and done, and you stated you'll be in Israel/Columbia and who knows where else, I'd have to recommend the DVX over the XL2.

The pros just outweigh the cons in this scenario. The only thing you'll be lacking is the OIS of the canon, and I know you said that was a HUGE deal, but with some practice and concentration you can make up for it with the DVX.

Good luck

-brown
 
It's good to hear from someone that owns both, thank you!. The DVX indeed seems like the better overall camera but I dont think most people realize just how much OIS really controls stablizations on the Canons, it's like night and day compared to other cams. I get moving shots so smooth, you'd think it's on a rail.

Is there some sort of glide or mount for around $1000.00 that's small enough to take on a airplane that will compensate for movements and pumbs? ... and yes, we'll be doing TONS of zooming on different subjects as we're walking.
 
I've worked with both cameras, and the DVX trumphs the XL2. If your going to be delivering 4:3 its a shoe in.
 
reaktor said:
I've worked with both cameras, and the DVX trumphs the XL2. If your going to be delivering 4:3 its a shoe in.
Click to expand...

True, but if our footage is shaky it'll completely negate the "quality" of the video itself, it'll look like an amature shot it. It's more important for us to get smooth shots over image quality. Do you think that the OIS and "steadiness" in both camera is the same when your shooting by hand for both units? Or is one better than the other?
 
If the OIs oin the DVX100 is grealty inferior to the XL2 (and please correct me if I'm wrong) then would this fix the issue for DVX shooting?

http://www.glidecam.com/product-2000-pro.php

It would seem so, but my concern then becomes you cant really use the ZOOM controls while using a glidecam right? Not unless you then hookup and use some sort of remote unit right?
 
My 2-cents: I'm an XL2 owner--but based on the description of your work, I'd choose the DVX hands-down, based mainly on the fact that you're shooting ONLY 4:3. As has been said, in 4:3 mode, the XL2 lens just isn't wide enough.
I would not shoot with OIS. You can go with one of the lower cost rigs, like the Glidecam, however, if you get the DVX off your shoulder and practice walking with it, you'll find positions where you can get really smooth shots walking. Practice those, then the only steadying devices you'll have to take on the plane are your arms. Limit your zooms too--you can only go so far, even with a Glidecam, before things will start moving around. But if it's a concern, or true handheld just won't work, I'd go with the Glidecam or one of the many other Steadicam clones--much more desirable than OIS.
 
I understand that using a glide system is of course more desirable to using OIS but just an experiment I compared the DVX to an old XL1 that was laying around to compare OIS. Below is the video on Youtube. Cam1 is the DVX and Cam2 is the XL1. http://youtube.com/watch?v=LBEHCLkXyAY

P.S. please exscuse my house, it's a MESS. :/
 
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Kindred, you're obviously leaning towards the XL series over the DVX. It almost seems like you're trying to convince the rest of us to tell you this is the route to go.

So I say, go with the XL2. Like I first stated, BOTH cams will get the job done just fine, and what it's really going to come down to is personal preference. The difference's are pretty small in the first place, but the OIS is better in the canon lenses, and that's what's important to you, so use it. Easy enough.

-brown
 
Kindredmachine said:
I understand that using a glide system is of course more desirable to using OIS but just an experiment I compared the DVX to an old XL1 that was laying around to compare OIS. Below is the video on Youtube. Cam1 is the DVX and Cam2 is the XL1. http://youtube.com/watch?v=LBEHCLkXyAY

P.S. please exscuse my house, it's a MESS. :/
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Was the DVX on a shoulder mount or handheld?

Also, what are your future plans? Are you going to use the cam on other projects or sell it right after the gig?
If this purchase shall be future proof, I would advice you to get a HVX and use it with tapes.
Later you can shoot 16:9, SD in DV50 and of course HD.

Right now I couldn´t justify buying a new 4:3 miniDV cam anymore...

PS for stabilization you could also check the TurtleRig, not as smooth as a steadycam, but also not as tiring...
 
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