Lenilenapi
Carbonite Member
Sam you are a madman - no question!
FS7: Another Baseplate/Shoulder pad/Rig thread for FS7 thread
- Thread starter Ben Scott
- Start date
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Maybe so... but tell me when you build a rig what would you want to lose?
Proper balance on shoulder or sticks?
Monitor with full LUT support, 1080 resolution and off centre focus check?
Ability to see this monitor in bright sunshine?
3 hour monitor power?
Audio monitoring?
Audio capture?
I stare at my rig every day looking for things to dump/cut down/drill out. There is some rod space at the back which could go.. but that is also a zone where I could mount a Vlock for studio based shoots or if my sony batts unexpectedly lose life.
I tried an Amera and very much built my rig around that experience. The Amera has a dovetail on the bottom that allows balancing of the camera AND lens over the shoulder pad/rig (and therefore sticks too)
balance with lens is not too important until you start using a variance of glass.. ie the 50-300 through to tiddly nikkors like the 28e
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That dove tail on the Amira is just a standard Sony VCT connection wedge..thats fits into the Sony tripod plate.. a lot of shoulder pad /plates have this.. then you can shift the Sony or other maker plate up and down on the tripod head sliding plate.. or are you talking about something else ?
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
AFAIK the zacuto is the only solution that allows balance of the camera/lens combo above the shoulder pad (and my homebuild)
The Amera has (on the arri rig I tried at a trade show) the same ability of sliding the camera/lens position relative to the shoulder pad.
The VCT is 'below' the shoulder pad.
Mine zacuto and arri therefor offer two points to adjust balance..
1) above the shoulder
2) under it.. which is basically not needed
the arri product I think is called the.. [h=5]Wedge Plate Adapter WPA-1[/h]
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Yep the amera/cabrio slid right back to balance with no hands. It was clearly something you could use for the whole day.
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Here is a (vocas) amera build where you can see the camera is slid back..
http://www.vocas.com/sites/default/.../accessories/extra/IMG_9807.png?itok=AYsp_evr
http://www.vocas.com/sites/default/.../accessories/extra/IMG_9807.png?itok=AYsp_evr
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I wasn't commenting on the quality of the product just showing the geometry - which is the same that my 'mad' homebuild rig has.. the ability to slide the whole camera back when using a longer lens enabling balance without resorting to having to lump a Vlock.
Edit - just saw the image you posted above.. that is not right - assuming that rig is balanced on the sticks you can see that the shoulder point is way too far back - the pad needs basically to be under the lens mount.
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Edit - just saw the image you posted above.. that is not right - assuming that rig is balanced on the sticks you can see that the shoulder point is way too far back - the pad needs basically to be under the lens mount.
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Yes sorry.. my bad.. I was just showing the VCT plate mount.. actually I just got an easy rig .. as even nicely balanced.. with Zacuto plate.. the F5/CN7 gets really heavy really quickly.. you,d be surprised... its a bit over 10 kg..with an Amira it would be a few kg more .. and that can do your back in, in the long or even short run !!!
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Oh yeah - the stuff is too heavy for my 40+ YO body.. hence my comments in the thread about the appeal of the FS5 which would shave a few pounds esp if used with a smaller zoom (17-55?) and the 'digital zoom'
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Lenilenapi
Carbonite Member
Sam , Do you put that 50-300 on your shoulder ?????????
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
yep loads.
it is especially strong with HFR like my bike shoot which was entirely on that lens, entirely on the shoulder https://vimeo.com/131346315
for non HFR I can get a sort of stable shot in the 50-100 region or longer for something like a pop video where a bit of shake is 'allowed'
mainly I would use it on sticks.. maybe at the side of a classroom where one could pop in on a kid imersed in their work etc.
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it is especially strong with HFR like my bike shoot which was entirely on that lens, entirely on the shoulder https://vimeo.com/131346315
for non HFR I can get a sort of stable shot in the 50-100 region or longer for something like a pop video where a bit of shake is 'allowed'
mainly I would use it on sticks.. maybe at the side of a classroom where one could pop in on a kid imersed in their work etc.
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Lenilenapi
Carbonite Member
I was always curious about that lens as its highly rated and a steal, but it just looks like such a monster .
I think I'll stick with the 18-200 despite its flaws for handheld.
With center scan it will become a real wildlife lens though.
Any problem with flexing on the mount from the weight?
"Sam Morgan Moore - handheld 600mm" ???????
That's a calling card.
I think I'll stick with the 18-200 despite its flaws for handheld.
With center scan it will become a real wildlife lens though.
Any problem with flexing on the mount from the weight?
"Sam Morgan Moore - handheld 600mm" ???????
That's a calling card.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
The lens sits on a support I made.
see othe thread somewhere
I don't think its a lot bigger than a 70-200 2.8 - I have a 70-200 af f4 too and the kit lens - but I find smooth manual ficus addictive - I also have the nikkor 100-300 5.6 which is nice to focus and worth a revisit with a speed booster - all those lenses are lighter
I also have a 600/4 and can confirm that target acquisition and stable use are close to impossible - a 300 with crop mode would be far more manageable
I think one could hand hold 600 at 150fps but not at 25
see othe thread somewhere
I don't think its a lot bigger than a 70-200 2.8 - I have a 70-200 af f4 too and the kit lens - but I find smooth manual ficus addictive - I also have the nikkor 100-300 5.6 which is nice to focus and worth a revisit with a speed booster - all those lenses are lighter
I also have a 600/4 and can confirm that target acquisition and stable use are close to impossible
- a 300 with crop mode would be far more manageable I think one could hand hold 600 at 150fps but not at 25
Lenilenapi
Carbonite Member
"I don't think its a lot bigger than a 70-200 2.8"
Huh - I figured it was. but haven't ever held one in my hands actually.
70-200 Canon has IS though I know you hate that (among many other things I might add!)
Huh - I figured it was. but haven't ever held one in my hands actually.
70-200 Canon has IS though I know you hate that (among many other things I might add!)
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Just thought I would report in on this set up.
Canon CN zoom, FS7+back section, teradek transmitter and TC lockit box.
Rental kit. Handheld show with many long takes.
We started with a chorizel baseblate, mass way to far forward, basically not useable - A and B (me) operators had the wedge plate on our shoulders all day, the pad was 6in behnind the CofM and where the camera actually contacted our bodies.
We then swapped to a zacuto bottom plate, which moved the camera right back.
This was a huge help but the stock eyepiece cant move forward enough due to cable length.
A operator has been using the stock VF swung up in all but bright sun.
I added my 502
Overall I think such a set up is basically way too heavy for anything but highly diciplined shooting with an A/C on hand to manage the camera between takes and across any location moves.
We have tried an easy rig - the A operator will use it, Im considering - I really dont like the operating style it imposes or being trapped in a robo cop suit.
The zoom is really nice, but not really long enough.
Overall review of shooting this combo for a week of 10 hour days on the street? Horrid to do, nice images.
Canon CN zoom, FS7+back section, teradek transmitter and TC lockit box.
Rental kit. Handheld show with many long takes.
We started with a chorizel baseblate, mass way to far forward, basically not useable - A and B (me) operators had the wedge plate on our shoulders all day, the pad was 6in behnind the CofM and where the camera actually contacted our bodies.
We then swapped to a zacuto bottom plate, which moved the camera right back.
This was a huge help but the stock eyepiece cant move forward enough due to cable length.
A operator has been using the stock VF swung up in all but bright sun.
I added my 502
Overall I think such a set up is basically way too heavy for anything but highly diciplined shooting with an A/C on hand to manage the camera between takes and across any location moves.
We have tried an easy rig - the A operator will use it, Im considering - I really dont like the operating style it imposes or being trapped in a robo cop suit.
The zoom is really nice, but not really long enough.
Overall review of shooting this combo for a week of 10 hour days on the street? Horrid to do, nice images.
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Morgan
Thanks for your review .. interesting for me as i have the CN7 on an F5.. so it seems the Fs7 cant power the zoom from the lens mount itself.. is that a D tap power for the zoom in your pic.. I started with a Vocas shoulder plate and same thing.. way too front heavy.. got the Zacuto universal plate.. only way to get the camera back.. after a year or so I have also recently got an easy rig.. its not as nice as actually hand holding as you say.. but boy it really does save your back.. if your shooting people at basically head height it works good enough.. any tilts etc it gets funky..
From your pic I dont think the easy rig is going to work that well though.. you have to get the "hook" at the balance point.. and your handle looks way too far back for that.. even on that cheese plate at the most front position I dont think it will work.. I have the Vocas handle,and had to turn it "backwards" i.e. open at the front.. and shift it forwards to get the balance point .. which was a bit forward even of the lens mount ! ..
When you get center crop ,you can get 240mm (yes I know the lens stays at 120mm) on the CN7.. when shooting HD anyway.. then you have 17-240.. thats not bad in one s35 lens..!
Thanks for your review .. interesting for me as i have the CN7 on an F5.. so it seems the Fs7 cant power the zoom from the lens mount itself.. is that a D tap power for the zoom in your pic.. I started with a Vocas shoulder plate and same thing.. way too front heavy.. got the Zacuto universal plate.. only way to get the camera back.. after a year or so I have also recently got an easy rig.. its not as nice as actually hand holding as you say.. but boy it really does save your back.. if your shooting people at basically head height it works good enough.. any tilts etc it gets funky..
From your pic I dont think the easy rig is going to work that well though.. you have to get the "hook" at the balance point.. and your handle looks way too far back for that.. even on that cheese plate at the most front position I dont think it will work.. I have the Vocas handle,and had to turn it "backwards" i.e. open at the front.. and shift it forwards to get the balance point .. which was a bit forward even of the lens mount ! ..
When you get center crop ,you can get 240mm (yes I know the lens stays at 120mm)
on the CN7.. when shooting HD anyway.. then you have 17-240.. thats not bad in one s35 lens..!
Nirv
Carbonite Member
Very interesting Sam. Rather your back than mine which is crying out just looking at that rig.
Is there a reason for the FS7 on this gig? Why not a Broadcast shoulder mount cam which you can shoot all day easy as you like with? Did it have to S35 and/or 4K?
I love the FS7 but only for my relatively slow shooting style of on and off tripods but after 10 hrs on the shoulder I'd be ready to throw it in the nearest ditch.
Hope you can share some images of the gig in due course.
Is there a reason for the FS7 on this gig? Why not a Broadcast shoulder mount cam which you can shoot all day easy as you like with? Did it have to S35 and/or 4K?
I love the FS7 but only for my relatively slow shooting style of on and off tripods but after 10 hrs on the shoulder I'd be ready to throw it in the nearest ditch.
Hope you can share some images of the gig in due course.