FS7: Another Baseplate/Shoulder pad/Rig thread for FS7 thread

Nirv said:
Very interesting Sam. Rather your back than mine which is crying out just looking at that rig.

Is there a reason for the FS7 on this gig? Why not a Broadcast shoulder mount cam which you can shoot all day easy as you like with? Did it have to S35 and/or 4K?

I love the FS7 but only for my relatively slow shooting style of on and off tripods but after 10 hrs on the shoulder I'd be ready to throw it in the nearest ditch.

Hope you can share some images of the gig in due course.
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The channel is a new 4k channel, so requiring 4k10bit acquisition with only approved PL cine glass.

Yes I have concerns of the highest order about the physical demands of using this kit.. to the point where I want to split it.. putting the teradek and the Vlock on a belt/pack/floor/bashers hands.

Im now going to answer donny which will expand a little further.
 
Donny you mention the F5.. lucky man.

Im noticing from the specs that the f5 is 2.2kg

The FS7 is 2.0kg+ 1.1 kg for the extension back TOTAL 3.1 kg.

So if jammed timecode is required then the F5 is THE CORRECT CAMERA to shoot not the FS7.

Id guess the same for raw.. the FS7 and back is a poor combo, the naked FS7 great but building it is dumb, the F5 is a better camera to build up.

The F5 would be so much better being both lighter and more robust (could we lose the front rods on FZ mount..? probably and save a load more mass)

The rental house here has the F5 at £10ukp a day more than the FS7*- Im going to lobby to switch camera and save a kg minimum.

Here is an updated photo showing what I actually shot with (the first shot ommited the teradek)

502 monitor with hombuild shade, to halfinchrails handlebar, to rods and zacuto baseplate.

CN lens to FS7 body, to extension back, to v adapter to teradek, to vlock (im feeling this rear load with snap the vlock on the XCDA by the end of the shoot or before)

My own homebuild top handle is designed to shave off mass and also circumvents the issue you noted with the easy rig.

The lens and my monitor take Dtap power, this config has two dtaps, overall the hawkwoods boxes and the XCDA are very short of power outlets, terrible design.

My rig
IMG_2737.JPG
rear section showing lockit box, teradek and Vlock
IMG_2738.JPG
a camera operator has somthing else onboard.. a posh audio receiver?
IMG_2740.JPG

*I guess the cheap F5 shows the popularity of the FS7 for smaller gigs.. quite right but this is not a smaller gig!
 
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ps Im posting this at some threat to my position (I guess) as a serious appeal for fellow operators to consider the cameras they are prepared to use. Extended use of heavy awkward cameras is I am sure a threat to the long term career in terms of the physical tolls.

Please consider the work you accept and remember that by accepting work of this nature you are setting (as am I!) a poor precedent in the industry.

S
 
Thanks Morgan

Well yes i think the extension unit is making the Fs7 way longer in the back.. I have iDX duo 146 WH bats,which are large power but very small size .. and I have the iDX CW7 video wireless.. sort of big but V mount powered and internal antenna.. so only one short BNC cable to "worry" about..
Yes pain of the all conquering sound devices is the 2 x receivers hanging off the camera just for a scratch track.. ! I wonder why you need the lockit box too ?
A couple of TC plug in,s after battery changes should be fine.. well it is on the F5.. some camera,s the sound guys seem to insist on the Box.. C300 being one of them Im told..
With the F5 you wont need a power cable for the lens.. the C type setting will power it through the mount, and although the F5 is EZ mount,with a PL adaptor it is still shorter than the adaptor you have there, but not alot TBH.. my camera with CN7.. vocas clip on MB,rails,support,CW7 and iDX Duo is just over 10 kg.. so still pretty heavy.. but for sure shorter out the back than you have now.. and the whole thing only 2 cables.. VF and about 3 inch BNC from SDI to CW7..
So you might be better going for an F5/CN7 combo.. one less cable,and elbow all that extension unit out the back.. and no need for the lockit box.. I would also recommend the iDX CW7 wireless .. just slides onto the V mount, the unit has its own V mount and the battery just clips onto that.. no power cables,and no antenna, the receiver is also V mount.. but now except for only the shortest HH shots,I use an easy rig.. I got over the "looking weird " thing pretty fast .. you wear that,take it off and pick up the camera.. and its like a ton weight !!.. with these "new" type of S35 hand held set ups and big zoom lenses .. well tiny compared to 35mm film zooms.. but big enough! and Ronin,Movi rigs.. I would be buying shares in easy rig !! sales must be going up..
 
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The easy rig is something well worth a think about. I think it is a really different way of shooting

To me it feels like using a steadicam where there are..

-premium rates
-some sort of on set culture that one, rehearses, suits up, does the shot and then hang out with a coffee... people respect the physical demands of steadicam.

The easy rig I feel like a need to learn to operate with it. I said..

"if we use this (easy rig) then you have a different show"

The look will change from the shoulder work with little pops on the zoom and hip swings that give 'the dynamic excitement' of 'reality'

The easy rig has a different feel.

I also feel that it has some hazards in the public space, you dont want to trip with it and a huge camera.

With steadicam one would have an a/c on your back and the quick release for dire emergency.

Steadicam culture is 20 years old, easy rig not so?

As for Movi style rigs Im also of the opinion that 'set culture' is not suitably developed yet.

S
 
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Oh dont worry you,ll still have the hip sway.. its not a steadicam at all.. and never sold as a poor man,s either.. you can do all the zoom pops etc.. big tilts up or down are different though .. as the camera sort of floats away from you.. but otherwise it still on your shoulder .. just the weight is transferred to your waist .. thats where you get the hip sway you dont really want from.. it does take a bit of getting used to,and i still am I guess.. but you can shoot for alot longer and also go much tighter than you would really want to just hand held.. and then hold it for as long as you want.. very steadily.. so some pro,s and cons.. I dont know how long your shoot is.. but by the look of that rig.. I would say easy rig is pretty much your only choice as far as saving your back goes.. you dont have to learn how to operate it really,not like a steady cam .. an hour or so at the most.. I just practiced with my poor family as standin,s.. !! but its very much the same look of HH.. wobbles and all.. not a steadicam feel at all .. just look out for low door ways.. and the arm swings about with no camera on it.. just get a small elastic band.. i use a hair band.. op the hook..to suit stops its flying about..
 
I don't think the look is like steadicam.. what I meant was that it is a 'specialist job' maybe like 'steadicam operator' or 'drone operator'

Maybe Im wrong.

Id like to come back to your comments on timecode.

I wonder if I could get the XDA back in the morning and set the TC and then maybe just resynch in the pm.

That would enable me to dump 50% of the rear section. At which point the rig would, I feel become managable for regular handheld.

I guess as a 5 owner you cant really comment on the 7, but your 5.. would it hold time if synched twice a day?

S
 
morgan_moore said:
Overall review of shooting this combo for a week of 10 hour days on the street? Horrid to do, nice images.


View attachment 107095
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Ouch! Well thank you I guess Sam... that makes my F5/R5/CZ.2 combo seem much more manageable all of a sudden!

zQjxzLZ.jpg


(note the delighted expression on my face as I contemplate another five minute take with it on the shoulder).
 
Thats with the raw recorder?

Take that off and the camera would be.. like a handy cam (almost!) I envy you big style.

The 5 is a real winner for this kind of use IMO

S
 
morgan_moore said:
Thats with the raw recorder?

Take that off and the camera would be.. like a handy cam (almost!) I envy you big style.

The 5 is a real winner for this kind of use IMO

S
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Yeah, that's the R5 on the back. It's a hefty rig, but so nicely streamlined, that it's more manageable than most, and the dovetailing shoulder pad makes it really fast and easy to balance.

My sound guy also has this fantastic little Zaxcom wireless unit, that feeds timecode and audio to the F5, it's so small that he and my AC just velcroed it to the back of the v-mount batteries, and it saves us having to mount a shotgun mic to the camera just to get a scratch track.
 
Morgan

Easyrig is not a specialist job.. you could just put the thing on and any competent camera person could shoot fine with it.. I just mucked around with it cos i dint have any work when i bought it .. you do have to have the right arm for the weight of your cam rig.. N 5 I would think.. same as mine.. or look it up on their website.. 10kg to 15kg or something like that.. you dont want to get too heavy tension as then the camera wont sit on your shoulder but be wanting to float off up.. better to go the other way.. but really you would get the hang of it very quickly.. its only tilts up or down thats weird as you have to sort of lean your whole back,or forwards and the camera is wanting to drift away from you because of the rope..
Re the TC.. I was working with any Ozzy sound guy recently with the ubiquitous Sound devices gear.. and he said he found the F5 TC to be very good, and did not need the lockit box .. (C300 he said he did use it as the TC would creep very quickly).. he would jam in the morning.. we would try after a battery change,not always happening.. and after lunch.. sort of anytime he thought to do it.. but only about 3 or most 4 times a day.. he also said it was very easy to sync up a few frames out anyway.. but the receivers are a pain.. TBH i,d rather mostly just be hard wired in and not have to damn receivers on board.. esp as the whole point is to be double system.. if they need a scratch track why not use the camera mic.. easier in post but a pain when shooting and sort of wasting the whole point in the first place.. they got around it on film for many years .. rant over!
But the Fs7 I dont know if the TC is as "trusted" as the F5.. obviously your sound recordist doesnt I guess.. or he/she is just playing safe..
But to answer you.. yes the F5 was fine 2 or 3 jams a day.. there was never any comments from post.. and for alot of B roll/GV,s I just went mute with out any sound ,F5 has no on board mic.. although there are of course 3rd party rigs.. and he got the wild track when he wanted to..
 
I should go and have a proper crack with it. Yes it was floating not sitting on the shoulder.

In general I just had a feeling that I didn't like it (for unscripted). For example if one were to trip on a step or a bag or sticks while stepping backwards I think taking a dive with the whole kit would be a very bad thing.

I don't like being in a Steadicam either.. but Im very clear when using that about scouting and rehearsing before suiting up.

Thanks for the thoughts on the TC.

S
 
Mertzwiller said:
Grug, What kind of shoulder pad is that under your F5?
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It's a Berkey System Shoulder Pad, with an Element Technica Micron Studio Adapter Plate (basically a miniature dovetail) attached to the top of it. This allows the shoulder pad to be slid quickly into position to adjust for the camera's centre of gravity in different setups. Really neat setup.

I detailed the build on the Sony forums: http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/Building-your-F5-5-into-an-Amira-Lite/m-p/382166

You could use almost any shoulder pad with this setup really (ideally I'd go for a slimmer one myself). I just used the Berkey System one, because I already had it, and it's a really nice shoulder pad. The key to the setup are the Element Technica Micron Baseplate and the Micron Studio Adapter Dovetail though.
 
morgan_moore said:
I should go and have a proper crack with it. Yes it was floating not sitting on the shoulder.

In general I just had a feeling that I didn't like it (for unscripted). For example if one were to trip on a step or a bag or sticks while stepping backwards I think taking a dive with the whole kit would be a very bad thing.

I don't like being in a Steadicam either.. but Im very clear when using that about scouting and rehearsing before suiting up.

Thanks for the thoughts on the TC.

S
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Yes agree.. I,d rather not use it if there was some magical way not to.. but HH these heavy rigs for a long time will ,as you say, pretty much do your back in for sure.. which leaves either easy rig or change the camera/lens.. but primes and lens changes just dont fit with doc/reality shoots.. thats why we had those great ENG zooms which we took for granted :).. I love the 17-120.. its what i was waiting for .. ENG style.. 180 degree focus.. macro.. BF adjustment ..blah blah.. but the pay back is weight.. just no way around it..

I have found height of the arm the only safety issue.. if you fall backwards .. the vest itself might actually protect you a bit.. your camera well who knows.. at least it wont go far..! Im not sure it would be any different with or without the easy rig .. if its a long backwards move my sound guy always gets behind me and guides.. the vest isnt that bulky.. its only the arm out the top to be aware of..

But each to their own.. if you just dont like the feel of it.. then go without it.. I didnt like the feel either.. ..but you do get used to it .. and really I have serious concerns about my back..

Thanks for the pic.. yes looks a busy set.. but really Ive never seen so much stuff on the back of a camera .. maybe the ext unit it giving it that extreme look.. I guess there will be a whole generation of camera op,s who will be to retire at 40 with chronic back problems .. !
 
I think the lens is cool - it's mainly the rubbish On the back - I'm sure I could handle just the camera and lens - I've used my own 50-300 loads on the shoulder with my own minimal rig

if we can do without (nailed) timecode I could lose half of the rear rubbish
 
An alternative to the easy rig is just get a monopod with a cheap manfrotto tilt head - The tilt head is essential. . Attach it to your rails with a quick release rails adapter and stick the bottom into a fanny pack. You are instantly triangulated and thus much steadier with tremendous relief on your back, It takes a second to put it on and off. If you're walking, or need a big tilt, or want to just go hand held low or very free you just lift it out of the fannypack and you can tilt the mooned horizontal to get very low . Very light, very cheap , very flexible and I can go all day. For interviews you can drop it to the floor for very steady triangulated shot. You can even hang it out a bit for el cheapo boom shot . I tried the easy rig and was steadier with a monopod with a lot less weight, hassle and without that dangerous arm swinging around. No a fan of the easyrig myself unless its with a MOVI
 
I'm a big fan of the Monopod for 'live' stuff and have used it a few times with the FS7 and a Red Scarlet when doing streaming events with tons of moving about.
 
Ive thought monopod.

Fanny pack.. hmm. maybe Im just weird but I don't like having a metal pole aimed at my bits.

I think a mono pod (you would need 3 axis tilt at both ends) could work but it only works when one is static - you cant 'crab round' without breaking the shot.

You could 'crab' with a fanny pack!

Another thing in this equation is the zoom handle on the lens.. it is perfectly placed for shoulder work (and has proper ergonomic design unlike the FS7 stock handle) but as soon as you go to chest height or waist height then how are you sposed to hold the lens.

Bottom line is that Im shooting a street based shoulder show and what is needed is a camera appropriate for shooting on the street from the shoulder!

S
 
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