FS7: Another Baseplate/Shoulder pad/Rig thread for FS7 thread

Good to see another man's rigging. Couple of questions:
1. How do you like the 24-105 IS f4 on the Speedbooster ULRA? I have a 16-35 f2.8, 24-70 f2.8, but only IS is the macro 100 IS 2.8. I've been wondering how much difference IS on an "all-purpose" zoom would make when r&ging.
I'm 3 hours from a major city, so renting is expensive to try it.
2. Your focus knob is angled: that doesn't seem like a natural position for your hand. And, How do you get your hand in there for the zoom ring?
3. Which Sachtler head do you use? Is that a 10? I'm trying to find the least expensive solution for a tripod that will give me creamy, smooth starts and stops, and smooth straight line diagonal pan/tilts... without breaking the bank. Played with an
8 a guy had on the street, and it felt choppy on diagonal, but he said adjuster tighter it did better. Also considering Cartoni Gamma, Miller Arrow 25. What do you think of used?
4. Where can I get an education on the whole work flow using LUTs. I looked on the Cameraman Ben site and I'm afraid its Greek to me. I get the principle involved, and I've read snippets on bunches of posts, but I just don't know how to get the whole thing going. (I shoot an fs7, obviously, and Premiere CC - haven't yet learned proper color grading software. I've come a long way from my early days of cutting 35mm features on a Moviola, but still have a lot to learn and not much time for it).
Would be grateful for at least an answer to #4
 
Donny 123 said:
Wow you got everything strapped on there .. any comments on the Grat VF.. some people seem very disappointed yet others rave about it.. how do you manage to monitor sound.. presume the radio mics are hidden.. and do your day job.. i.e. be the DP :).. must be tough.. if there is clothes/wind rustle is that considered something you should flagged up at the time..?
Click to expand...

Hey Donny,

Yeah, it's a bit of audio-accessory overkill I agree, but nice to have the freedom to grab all that sound when needed ;-). To answer your questions:

- Yeah, I am also responsible for checking if the recorded sound is usable, although careful lav placement certainly helps minimise the likelihood of wind and rustling. We initially started shooting with me getting just the ambient sound and the director recording both radio mics into a Tascam DR-70. However, she finds that wearing proper headphones really gets "in between" her and our subjects in a pretty disruptive way, and so would often end up leaving the round her neck (particularly when things were at their most intense/interesting). This resulted in some pretty badly compromised sound from the first shoots, which will be expensive to fix in post (and still end up sounding sub-par). Overall I'm happy to take on the extra responsibility if it makes the film that much more listenable in the end! :-)

- As for monitoring, I'm running all four channels into my headphones (in stereo monitoring mode), with the shotgun level set lower so that I can pretty clearly hear one subject in each ear. I'm really interested to know more about some of the settings in the FS-7's menu system, but can't really find much about it online. Some small mentions on JWSound, but not from an operator's POV. Anyone else have any insight into "INPUT 1/2 Reference", "Input Level" (maybe this is just the equivalent to the side pots?) and "Limiter Mode"?

- For the Gratical HD, I have somewhat of a love/hate relationship with it. Basically I love it, but there are a couple of frustrations that are yet to be fixed in FW (though I have faith that they might):

Loves:
Sharpness (this thing is simply BEAUTIFUL to look through, NO issues finding sharps, NEVER use peaking).
Form factor & build (very slim width-wise, so open-left-eye scanning is a breeze, built like a small tank, so carrying the camera is worry-free. On that note, the axis mini is also a very slick and flexible little beast).
Colour reproduction (super accurate to my eyes, am yet to have a nasty surprise when reviewing clips).
LUTs (as I mentioned, I'm almost dependant on using the function buttons to flip between native, 1, and 2 stop over-exposed LUTs to see what I'm actually shooting in Slog).
Scopes (having high-quality, very fast, pre(or post)-LUT histo, WFM, and vectorscope beneath the image is LOVELY. I want to ask them to add a full-width WFM option to the FW, as the other two are only marginally useful to me, and ATM when you switch them off the WFM stays small surrounded by useless black space).

Hates:
EVF only (I'm envious of the DP-501/2's ability to be both EVF and monitor, BUT, the weight and size difference (esp. width-wise) is a deal-breaker for me.
LUTs (only 1D LUTs currently supported, so some banding is visible on a LUTted image in fine gradients. Zacuto assure us that 3D are 'coming soon').
Buttons (the four main function buttons are the 'clicky' type, and with an unusually loud, high-pitch CLICK too. This means I'm rarely willing to use them whilst rolling sound in a quiet environment. This is just silly design).
Bugs (the first unit I got would occasionally 'grey screen' and need rebooting, although it did have a serial 000169. Zacuto kindly and swiftly replaced it and I haven't had any more crashes. However, I do still find that very occasionally the LUT will get frozen to 'on', with unresponsive function buttons, requiring a ~9sec restart).

So yeah, overall I'm very pleased with the GHD, and hopeful that it will become even better in the future. Pretty much exactly how I feel about the FS-7!

Cheers,

jason
 
Raphael1 said:
Good to see another man's rigging. Couple of questions:
1. How do you like the 24-105 IS f4 on the Speedbooster ULRA? I have a 16-35 f2.8, 24-70 f2.8, but only IS is the macro 100 IS 2.8. I've been wondering how much difference IS on an "all-purpose" zoom would make when r&ging.
I'm 3 hours from a major city, so renting is expensive to try it.
2. Your focus knob is angled: that doesn't seem like a natural position for your hand. And, How do you get your hand in there for the zoom ring?
3. Which Sachtler head do you use? Is that a 10? I'm trying to find the least expensive solution for a tripod that will give me creamy, smooth starts and stops, and smooth straight line diagonal pan/tilts... without breaking the bank. Played with an
8 a guy had on the street, and it felt choppy on diagonal, but he said adjuster tighter it did better. Also considering Cartoni Gamma, Miller Arrow 25. What do you think of used?
4. Where can I get an education on the whole work flow using LUTs. I looked on the Cameraman Ben site and I'm afraid its Greek to me. I get the principle involved, and I've read snippets on bunches of posts, but I just don't know how to get the whole thing going. (I shoot an fs7, obviously, and Premiere CC - haven't yet learned proper color grading software. I've come a long way from my early days of cutting 35mm features on a Moviola, but still have a lot to learn and not much time for it).
Would be grateful for at least an answer to #4
Click to expand...

Hey Raphael,

Trying not to laugh at the schoolboy-humour potential of it being "good to see another man's rigging" ;-) :-P. Seriously though:

1. The lens is actually the Tamron 24-70 F2.8 VC (the only IS 24-70 on the market AFAIK), it's sharp and fluid and close-to parfocal (at least, a LOT better than the 24-105). I really rate the Tamron, especially for the price of around £600/$900. IS can be a lifesaver for walk and talks on busy city pavements, but not necessary for normal static on-the-should work IMO. I have checked out a 24-105 F4 IS, and I don't rate the image quality at all. I actually found it so soft that it was noticeably harder to be confident on sharps at anything other than 105mm.

2. The z-drive is angled so that it can accept a handle (or 'Tornado' as Zacuto's over-excited marketing dept. would tell you ;-), which is great for long sessions of static shooting. I access the zoom ring from higher up / over the top of the barrel. It takes a little getting used to, but works fine for me.

3. The head is the Schatler DV-12. I was running a Manfrotto 504HD before that, and this thing is LEAPS ahead. Not cheap, and pretty heavy, but for smooth start/stops, and the ability to balance properly and use sprung counter-tension, it's well worth it! This combo with their carbon-fibre legs is over £5K new, which is outta my budget, but I picked this one up on an online tech auction (www.techbid.co.uk) for about £1.5K, so yes, if you can see/touch/try before buying then I definitely recommend used!

4. LUTs, Hmmmmmmmm. I picked up all that I know from hours trawling this forum and the Sony Community forum, plus a few useful blog sites. Here's one article from Alistair Chapman that may be interesting, and his whole XDCAM-user site is great. Dennis Hingsberg's blog is also great in general and I think has some good LUT info in his section on colour grading. No super-easy answers here I'm afraid!

All the best. Whereabouts are you based BTW?

Cheers,

jason
 
basspig said:
Oh, I'm envious! Osaka Japan? I have friends living there in Ibaraki. Hoping to visit and scout around for real estate in northern/upper east regions (Iwate) area. Japan is the future of video tech.. they had HDTV years before American's even heard the acronym. Sony's HiVision 32 megapixel video system, in cooperation with NHK Television, have set the bar to incredible heights. They have a 400 seat demo theater with 36 channel surround audio that is said to be spectacular.
I'm sure one day my FS7 will feel right at home there.
Click to expand...

Hey Mark (or Mary, or both?!),

Yeah, Osaka is a lovely place to be working, although at this time of year it is pretty hot and repressively humid. I'm getting very sweaty dashing about with cam and lens bag in tow! Definitely looking forward to an opportunity to get around the country a bit more on one of the later shoot trips. Tech here is indeed impressive, although I was slightly disappointed not to be able to find a simple white-balance-lens-cap at the megalithic Odobashi camera yesterday!

Nice one,

jason
 
Hey Jason, I also have the Gratical. Would you be willing to share any of your LUT files? I've converted one LC709A LUT in LUTCalc, but I don't really know the software well so I'm not sure if I did it the right way. Because you still can't load 3D LUTs directly into the Gratical yet, can you?

EDIT: I also get the same "frozen" bug, requiring a restart... kind of annoying. Hopefully some firmware updates fix it!

Oh, and I see you're using your LCD on an arm, I do the same thing. And since I have absolutely no desire to use the FS7 loupe, I actually disassembled it and detached the loupe from the small "hood" part that attaches to the LCD. So I've got a nice little hard-plastic sun shade!
 
jasonbrooks said:
Hey Donny,

Yeah, it's a bit of audio-accessory overkill I agree, but nice to have the freedom to grab all that sound when needed ;-). To answer your questions:

- Yeah, I am also responsible for checking if the recorded sound is usable, although careful lav placement certainly helps minimise the likelihood of wind and rustling. We initially started shooting with me getting just the ambient sound and the director recording both radio mics into a Tascam DR-70. However, she finds that wearing proper headphones really gets "in between" her and our subjects in a pretty disruptive way, and so would often end up leaving the round her neck (particularly when things were at their most intense/interesting). This resulted in some pretty badly compromised sound from the first shoots, which will be expensive to fix in post (and still end up sounding sub-par). Overall I'm happy to take on the extra responsibility if it makes the film that much more listenable in the end! :-)

- As for monitoring, I'm running all four channels into my headphones (in stereo monitoring mode), with the shotgun level set lower so that I can pretty clearly hear one subject in each ear. I'm really interested to know more about some of the settings in the FS-7's menu system, but can't really find much about it online. Some small mentions on JWSound, but not from an operator's POV. Anyone else have any insight into "INPUT 1/2 Reference", "Input Level" (maybe this is just the equivalent to the side pots?) and "Limiter Mode"?

- For the Gratical HD, I have somewhat of a love/hate relationship with it. Basically I love it, but there are a couple of frustrations that are yet to be fixed in FW (though I have faith that they might):

Loves:
Sharpness (this thing is simply BEAUTIFUL to look through, NO issues finding sharps, NEVER use peaking).
Form factor & build (very slim width-wise, so open-left-eye scanning is a breeze, built like a small tank, so carrying the camera is worry-free. On that note, the axis mini is also a very slick and flexible little beast).
Colour reproduction (super accurate to my eyes, am yet to have a nasty surprise when reviewing clips).
LUTs (as I mentioned, I'm almost dependant on using the function buttons to flip between native, 1, and 2 stop over-exposed LUTs to see what I'm actually shooting in Slog).
Scopes (having high-quality, very fast, pre(or post)-LUT histo, WFM, and vectorscope beneath the image is LOVELY. I want to ask them to add a full-width WFM option to the FW, as the other two are only marginally useful to me, and ATM when you switch them off the WFM stays small surrounded by useless black space).

Hates:
EVF only (I'm envious of the DP-501/2's ability to be both EVF and monitor, BUT, the weight and size difference (esp. width-wise) is a deal-breaker for me.
LUTs (only 1D LUTs currently supported, so some banding is visible on a LUTted image in fine gradients. Zacuto assure us that 3D are 'coming soon').
Buttons (the four main function buttons are the 'clicky' type, and with an unusually loud, high-pitch CLICK too. This means I'm rarely willing to use them whilst rolling sound in a quiet environment. This is just silly design).
Bugs (the first unit I got would occasionally 'grey screen' and need rebooting, although it did have a serial 000169. Zacuto kindly and swiftly replaced it and I haven't had any more crashes. However, I do still find that very occasionally the LUT will get frozen to 'on', with unresponsive function buttons, requiring a ~9sec restart).

So yeah, overall I'm very pleased with the GHD, and hopeful that it will become even better in the future. Pretty much exactly how I feel about the FS-7!

Cheers,

jason
Click to expand...

Thanks for the concise report.. I wasn't meaning to sound narky.. I just really wondered where the responsibility of sound quality was going.. Ive done similar but always stated from the out set that i wouldn't be responsible for sound quality .. unless its was something very obvious .. like no sound ! .. concerning hidden radio miss on the move.. sit down interview fine.. can you not apply a monitor LUT only from the camera.. direct from the SDI to the GHD.. I have an F5 with the LCD finder and find it very good.. but quite big.. width wise.. although i like the big screen.. so guess cant have it both ways.. but was wondering about the Grat.. but then many mixed reports.. maybe later FW has fixed most of them..

Thanks
 
jshbckr said:
Hey Jason, I also have the Gratical. Would you be willing to share any of your LUT files? I've converted one LC709A LUT in LUTCalc, but I don't really know the software well so I'm not sure if I did it the right way. Because you still can't load 3D LUTs directly into the Gratical yet, can you?

EDIT: I also get the same "frozen" bug, requiring a restart... kind of annoying. Hopefully some firmware updates fix it!

Oh, and I see you're using your LCD on an arm, I do the same thing. And since I have absolutely no desire to use the FS7 loupe, I actually disassembled it and detached the loupe from the small "hood" part that attaches to the LCD. So I've got a nice little hard-plastic sun shade!
Click to expand...

Hey Josh,

Sure thing, no problem. See how you get on with these two sets. I take no responsibility for their perfect accuracy, so do make sure you test them yourself and see if you like the accuracy they provide before doing anything critical with them!!!

This DropBox public link should give you a .zip file containing two sets of 1D monitor LUTs. One is from Slog3 gamma in Custom mode to Rec709 800% viewing space (JB-Slog3-709-800-XXX.cube), and the other is from Slog3 gamma with SGamut3.Cine colourspace (for Cine EI mode only) to LC709A viewing space (SLog3SGamut3CineToLC_709_A-XXXX.cube). You'll notice that each one has a "Normal" (for 'proper' exposure, max DR), and "1Over" and "2Over" variants. When applied, these "over" variants will darken the image you see in your GHD (by either 1 or 2 stops, obviously ;-), thus making you over-expose your footage by 1 or 2 stops, depending which one you use. As I said before, I use these variants when the scene is obviously not demanding the full 14-stop DR of the FS-7 (you can often notice this when your waveform is not at all "full", and sitting way down toward the lower half). Do be careful if you have small areas of any much brighter data though (specular highlights, like sweat on someone's brow, for example), because they may not show up in the WFM, and you'll be needlessly blowing them out.

The whole intentional over-exposure thing is a bit of a difficult game for sure, but one that I find to be hugely rewarding when you get super-clean footage at the end of it! IMO, there's nothing worse than having to lift any Slog3 footage in post, as it can get very noisy, very quickly!

BTW, I created these from scratch using @cameramanben's LUTcalc (easy to use once you get used to the GUI, and well documented, discussed and appreciated here on the forum). Do let me know if you have any issues loading or using those.

Best of luck!

jason

P.S. Using the loupe-mount as an improv lens hood is a nice idea too - cheers! :-)
 
jasonbrooks said:
Hey Raphael,

"Trying not to laugh at the schoolboy-humor potential of it being "good to see another man's rigging" ;-) :-P. Seriously though:"

Jasonbrooks, now I'm blushing! Never saw the cow pie I stepped in.
Thanks so much for your reply on all these questions. I will read the recommended posts, and check out the auction site.

I live in Northern California (Redding) but will probably move soon to the Boulder/Longmont area near Denver where both our sons and grand daughter live.

PS just bought a Cinemecanix C1 Pro rig. Can't wait to try it out. It rests on your shoulder without any effort and has an adjustable very deep padded shoulder hook.
The rigs I used to shoot hand held with Arri 35mm film cameras were all hooked to both shoulders and waist and you could stand without using your arms to
support the camera. The maker tells me a lot of guys with back problems, or extended hand held shoots use them. It makes sense...we'll see. Maybe I'll post when I get rigged up.
Click to expand...
 
FS7 on Cinemecanix rig

FS7 on Cinemecanix rig

This is not me, but fs7 on the Cinemecanix C1 Pro rig
I bought. Love the no hands.
11705795_952536988149510_1939486006718611164_o.jpg11707668_952484058154803_8805473172222848859_n.jpg
 
From the picture, it looks like the whole lower rods/handgrip thingy in front of the chest is pretty much redundant and would only get in your way. I do like how the deeply curved pad conforms to the shoulder and back. Let us know what you think when you get it. (Not an FS7 owner, but I have other cameras this might work with.)

- Greg
 
It's bad enough when everyone wants the camera to do the job of focusing for you. Now people don't even want to put their hands on it!

Whatever floats your boat but that is massive overkill for me and it really looks like a couple of kg extra weight that really do not need to be there.

My entire shoulder rig is probably 1kg in total.
 
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This pic just arrived..

FS7

Monitor - FS700 battery on top handle feeds power into dummy batt on SmallHD502 monitor, (luts in any mode) and plywood screenshade.

Here is 50-300 sitting on support.

Top handle carries, lavs, 702 batt and mic holder, also has hold point at actual CofM of camera, wooden.

Audio Rear not seen, sony lave receiver, CS2 mic on short boom and long cable works as top mic or can be removed and held by subject/or assistant for interviews

FS7 is on long manfrotto plate, allowing fore/aft travel to balance lenses from 10mm to 50-300

Rig has HIR handles and shoulder pads

Tripod attachement home made to allow positioning of shoulder pads over the centre of sticks

Miller arrow 25 head

Miller solo sticks

Power regualar sony batts.

--
Pertaining to the FS5 camera I feel the build I have here.. which is kind of the miniumm for shoulder/sticks/audio/monitoring.. this is a chunky rig and the same build around the FS5 would be a welcome cut in mass..

self_NP.jpg
 
wow thats a funky VF.. why so far forward and miles away from the camera..? just out of interest .. obviously it works for you and thats all that matters ..

How do you like the Arrow 25.. did you compare to the compass 25 at all.. ? whats the difference ?

Thanks
 
This is a monitor not a VF.

When the camera is on my shoulder (way back - the CofM is bacisally at the front of the camera - this rig balances on shoulder or sticks) the monitor needs to be this far forward for me to be able to focus on it.

An EVF could be further back. Im on the shelf on an EVF as (apart from cost) I dont think I could use an EVF on sticks or operating 'low mode'

I also tend to struggle with EVFs being left eye dominant.

--

When I bought the Arrow the Compass probably did not exist (2008?). This head is very smooth to operate a proper 'pro' head with a range of frictions and also a fore aft trim plate for perfect balance.. but it is pretty heavy and the wedge is actualluy not that strong and a point of flex in the rig, clearly such a built (tall) rig adds additional torque to the head. the tallness is unavoidable without leaving the manfrotto plate system.

Building an 'ENG' rig from scratch I might consider something lighter?

S
 
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