GH2 and once more: SMOOTH vs CINEMA ???

[Mark Crabtree]

Calibrating for proper exposure. I use a chip chart. Open the iris until the brightest two chips are still visible. I adjust my external LCD to match my camera LCD. Then I expose the chip chart for the two brightest chips both showing white, then lower 1 stop so both are properly exposed and then lower 1 more stop so both are under exposed ( as far as the LCD's are concerned). Then I open the files on my calibrated computer monitor. If the files look as exposed then the LCD's are right on, but if my over exposed file is still showing both top chips to be unique then I go back to the LCD's and lower the brightness and start all over.

When I shoot I use the chip chart when I can, but for run and gun I use my calibrated Minolta meter. Calibrated to me means appropriate adjustment given the chain of elements in my closed work flow.

The idea is to expose to the right. GH cameras have an 8 bit encoded bucket and if you fill that bucket with data you get the best possible image. Much better to be slightly decreasing the exposure in post than increasing it. But it requires constant vigilance to expose as close as possible to the clipping point but not going over it.

 

[roei z]

thanks Sage.
Mark, you're saying that i shouldn't underexpose by any means, right? even if the image looks too bright. i should mostly beware of the 100IRE clipping, right ?

 

[Uwe Lansing]

...

Wow, very nice colors and gradients...

 

[Ian-T]

...also very clean and detailed. If there is noise I can't tell.

 

[Sage]

Thank you Uwe.

Roei, it could be said you'd only be underexposing relative to cinema. The midtones will end up around the same place when equivalently exposed to cinema, but you'll have more highlights and more shadow. (win win)

All isos will have a bit of noise, but 160 and 400 are very good. So I only shoot those, and do what is needed to get proper exposure at 400. (open aperture, then add light or move the shot) 640 has a grainy film look to me, but that isn't the best for codec grading freedom...

 

[Mark Crabtree]

thanks Sage.
Mark, you're saying that i shouldn't underexpose by any means, right? even if the image looks too bright. i should mostly beware of the 100IRE clipping, right ?

With cameras like GH1 and GH2 you are going to clip something. I clip stuff on red. The thing is to let OVEREXPOSED areas clip, like backgrounds in bright sun and hair and skin exposed to extreme back light. You just don't want to clip the key light. Under exposing with this kind of camera in an attempt to look more filmic is a recepie for a very noisy image. For me, in back light situations the fill light is effectively the key light, which you want exposed just to the edge of clipping highlights and perhaps reduce exposure by a half stop. Yes you will clip some of the background or extreme back lit areas but your subject will look clean and noiseless.

 

[vcassel]

Thank you Ian!

Roei-
I have the clip monitor on, and try to do a nice compromise between placing the subject in midtones, and keeping highlights (most scenes are moderate).
This is not so difficult in nostalgic/smooth, because midtones are so close to highlights (which is responsible for the nice roll off).
If the dynamic range of the scene is just too extreme, I reach for my ultra contrast filter.

Love what I'm seeing here, Sage!
1) Are you using a chip chart like Mark?
2) When you're compromising on the midtones and highlights, are you metering or using the histogram? And what do you think of this article?
3) What Ultra Contrast filter are you using? I was thinking a 1/8 would be plenty, but maybe also a 1/4 just in case.
4) Do you recommend getting a X-rite ColorChecker 24?
5) Are you using Cineform or 5DtoRGB to transcode?

Sorry for all the questions, but this has been a particular subject I've been wondering about lately and it really seems as though you've mastered it. Just really beautiful work right there.

 

[vcassel]

Calibrating for proper exposure. I use a chip chart. Open the iris until the brightest two chips are still visible. I adjust my external LCD to match my camera LCD. Then I expose the chip chart for the two brightest chips both showing white, then lower 1 stop so both are properly exposed and then lower 1 more stop so both are under exposed ( as far as the LCD's are concerned). Then I open the files on my calibrated computer monitor. If the files look as exposed then the LCD's are right on, but if my over exposed file is still showing both top chips to be unique then I go back to the LCD's and lower the brightness and start all over.

When I shoot I use the chip chart when I can, but for run and gun I use my calibrated Minolta meter. Calibrated to me means appropriate adjustment given the chain of elements in my closed work flow.

The idea is to expose to the right. GH cameras have an 8 bit encoded bucket and if you fill that bucket with data you get the best possible image. Much better to be slightly decreasing the exposure in post than increasing it. But it requires constant vigilance to expose as close as possible to the clipping point but not going over it.

So you're using a latitudinal chip chart? Do you recommend the X-rite 24? I don't have a light meter yet, but how do you feel about just using the histogram? Or should I take that particular plunge?

Thanks, guys! This thread is really getting good.

 

[roei z]

I just bought the 1/8 ultra con.
Let's hope I'll have a good use for it..

 

[vcassel]

Calibrating for proper exposure. I use a chip chart. Open the iris until the brightest two chips are still visible. I adjust my external LCD to match my camera LCD. Then I expose the chip chart for the two brightest chips both showing white, then lower 1 stop so both are properly exposed and then lower 1 more stop so both are under exposed ( as far as the LCD's are concerned). Then I open the files on my calibrated computer monitor. If the files look as exposed then the LCD's are right on, but if my over exposed file is still showing both top chips to be unique then I go back to the LCD's and lower the brightness and start all over.

When I shoot I use the chip chart when I can, but for run and gun I use my calibrated Minolta meter. Calibrated to me means appropriate adjustment given the chain of elements in my closed work flow.

The idea is to expose to the right. GH cameras have an 8 bit encoded bucket and if you fill that bucket with data you get the best possible image. Much better to be slightly decreasing the exposure in post than increasing it. But it requires constant vigilance to expose as close as possible to the clipping point but not going over it.

So, thinking about this a little more, are you saying you're focusing on the 1/4 tones in order to increase the width of the 3/4 tones?

 

[Mark Crabtree]

I guess you could put it that way. Since the GH series has TWO negative issues regarding shadow areas; one: Nostalgic is the flattest setting and is still WAY TOO CONTRASTY; and two: The AVHC codec throws away data in the shadow areas, then you have a double incentive to maintain as much shadow detail as possible. This HAS TO MEAN exposing to the right. Right on the edge of over exposure. I feel that 1/2 stop exposure reduction is the maximum protection for highlights I can accept before resorting to Neat Video. But given the shadow detail in under exposed scenes is just not recorded, Neat is just going to make for noiseless dark video.

 

[stonebat]

Calibrating for proper exposure. I use a chip chart. Open the iris until the brightest two chips are still visible. I adjust my external LCD to match my camera LCD. Then I expose the chip chart for the two brightest chips both showing white, then lower 1 stop so both are properly exposed and then lower 1 more stop so both are under exposed ( as far as the LCD's are concerned). Then I open the files on my calibrated computer monitor. If the files look as exposed then the LCD's are right on, but if my over exposed file is still showing both top chips to be unique then I go back to the LCD's and lower the brightness and start all over.

When I shoot I use the chip chart when I can, but for run and gun I use my calibrated Minolta meter. Calibrated to me means appropriate adjustment given the chain of elements in my closed work flow.

The idea is to expose to the right. GH cameras have an 8 bit encoded bucket and if you fill that bucket with data you get the best possible image. Much better to be slightly decreasing the exposure in post than increasing it. But it requires constant vigilance to expose as close as possible to the clipping point but not going over it.

"lower 1 stop" and another "lower 1 stop"? You meant controlling ext LCD to lower the monitor's own exposure setting? This sounds interesting.

 

[vcassel]

I guess you could put it that way. Since the GH series has TWO negative issues regarding shadow areas; one: Nostalgic is the flattest setting and is still WAY TOO CONTRASTY; and two: The AVHC codec throws away data in the shadow areas, then you have a double incentive to maintain as much shadow detail as possible. This HAS TO MEAN exposing to the right. Right on the edge of over exposure. I feel that 1/2 stop exposure reduction is the maximum protection for highlights I can accept before resorting to Neat Video. But given the shadow detail in under exposed scenes is just not recorded, Neat is just going to make for noiseless dark video.

Thanks, Mark.

When you're calibrating your monitor, are you using sRGB or Wide Gamut? My Lenovo's built-in X-rite calibrator is giving me this rather slight magenta cast.

 

[roei z]

I guess you could put it that way. Since the GH series has TWO negative issues regarding shadow areas; one: Nostalgic is the flattest setting and is still WAY TOO CONTRASTY; and two: The AVHC codec throws away data in the shadow areas, then you have a double incentive to maintain as much shadow detail as possible. This HAS TO MEAN exposing to the right. Right on the edge of over exposure. I feel that 1/2 stop exposure reduction is the maximum protection for highlights I can accept before resorting to Neat Video. But given the shadow detail in under exposed scenes is just not recorded, Neat is just going to make for noiseless dark video.

Mark, will you share some footage of your optimum use with nostalgic?

 

[Sage]

Love what I'm seeing here, Sage!
1) Are you using a chip chart like Mark?
2) When you're compromising on the midtones and highlights, are you metering or using the histogram? And what do you think of this article?
3) What Ultra Contrast filter are you using? I was thinking a 1/8 would be plenty, but maybe also a 1/4 just in case.
4) Do you recommend getting a X-rite ColorChecker 24?
5) Are you using Cineform or 5DtoRGB to transcode?

Sorry for all the questions, but this has been a particular subject I've been wondering about lately and it really seems as though you've mastered it. Just really beautiful work right there.

Thanks vcassel,
For the quick ones, I use a UC3, and occasionally turn to the histogram to see how this are placing, usually when using the UC3.
I turn to the UC when the DR of the cam is overwhelmed, though you like might use a lower UC for a subtle smoked effect.
As to metering and charts, I have moved toward shooting a particular way with 8bit 420 mp4 cams. With film, exposing and Wb was a very scientific process, because you had no view of what you were shooting, so if you got the measuring and dialing wrong, you would have to wait a couple weeks for developing. With these very clean compressed cams, the nature of the process has shifted somewhat. Now I look to get the final look right on the gh2, without regard to measuring. The more I tried to alter mp4s in post, the worse they would get. (noise/artifacts amplified, muddy color etc) So now I 'color grade' in cam, with very slight adjustments in post. It looks great, very pro, w/ no codec breaking. (no additional conversions, native in cs5) I think the scientific approach still exists from the film days, though letting the intuition and feeling take over at a certain point in the process may be one of the greatest improvements that the digital age allows. (I'm one who loves numbers, though knowledge of them only goes so far in this emotional medium, as I am discovering) Also, I only shoot iso 160/400 and use fast primes/light as is needed. (only 160 in ETC) This goes a long way.

I just bought the 1/8 ultra con.
Let's hope I'll have a good use for it..

Might be a bit light- post your thoughts

 

[vcassel]

Thanks vcassel,
For the quick ones, I use a UC3, and occasionally turn to the histogram to see how this are placing, usually when using the UC3.
I turn to the UC when the DR of the cam is overwhelmed, though you like might use a lower UC for a subtle smoked effect.
As to metering and charts, I have moved toward shooting a particular way with 8bit 420 mp4 cams. With film, exposing and Wb was a very scientific process, because you had no view of what you were shooting, so if you got the measuring and dialing wrong, you would have to wait a couple weeks for developing. With these very clean compressed cams, the nature of the process has shifted somewhat. Now I look to get the final look right on the gh2, without regard to measuring. The more I tried to alter mp4s in post, the worse they would get. (noise/artifacts amplified, muddy color etc) So now I 'color grade' in cam, with very slight adjustments in post. It looks great, very pro, w/ no codec breaking. (no additional conversions, native in cs5) I think the scientific approach still exists from the film days, though letting the intuition and feeling take over at a certain point in the process may be one of the greatest improvements that the digital age allows. (I'm one who loves numbers, though knowledge of them only goes so far in this emotional medium, as I am discovering) Also, I only shoot iso 160/400 and use fast primes/light as is needed. (only 160 in ETC) This goes a long way.

Are you "color grading" in the white balance settings, or with filters?

 

[Sage]

Are you "color grading" in the white balance settings, or with filters?

With the Wb, just as warm or cool as I feel the given shot should look.

 

[stonebat]

You know... M43 is turning the clock back. Compact system, MF, and good old film science.

Mark Crabtree's overexposed calibration is exactly opposite to what I learned from general photography that promotes underexposure instead of overexposure to bring back more details in post-processing. I wonder if his calibration tip can help photos from GH series. Yeah a sample clip would be nice.

 

[stonebat]

Hmmm.... I wish there's a way to tweak GH2's LCD and EVF to adjust the exposure so that they display slightly underexposed than actual footage being recorded in the camera.

 

[roei z]

Of course you can change the LCD exposure.
Not sure about the evf.