Anamorphic Shootout

I have a Kowa 2x and it works very well with an Helios M44.
I used it with a navitar 50/0.95 and that is good too.
With a Kowa 2x, you can use some prime down to 35mm. I have the Carl zeiss 35/2.4 and it's not vignetting.
Could you please let me know where did you get the iscomorphot from ?
Thank you,
 
I once bought this particular lens from this particular seller, because I was also intrigued by the size and form.
The lens was a blurry mess. Never managed to get anything in focus.
Fortunately the seller provided a full refund when I returned the lens.
I would avoid ;)

Implicit said:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261034390769?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

What do you guys think of this lens? I haven't heard much about ruralscope and a google search has come up with nothing
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I have an anamorphic lens made by Iscorama for Runco Rainier (confirmed by an Iscorama email) which is exactly like a 54 but the quality of the glass is better. It had two tiny scratches before we purchased and converted it (which have no effect on an anamorph's image as confirmed by the company) so we got a great price for a lens that cost 7000 Euros originally. Never really use it, so maybe I'll put it back up for sale. I too think the price has become absurd. I invested about 1400 Euros at the time and I guarantee that it is sharper than most of that other stuff out there. If it had Iscorama written on the side I would have probably sold it for about 3-4X the price. Once again, I think there is a lot of fashion in the mix as to why the prices go so high.
 
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kostas said:
What kind of lens are you looking to purchase?
1.5x?, 2x? for what camera?
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Well ideally I am looking for a x1.33 or x1.5, but being new to the anamorphic scene, I dont want to drop £500+ on a anamorphic lens just yet. This really only leaves the x2 lenses. I will be using it on the D7000 now, and in the future either a D800 or FS100.

I've actually just won a bid this morning on a Cinepanoramic lens (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170868355865&autorefresh=true). I got it for £45 so i think its worth it. I'm guessing the quality won't be great (otherwise there would have been much more info on it) but at least its something I can play around with to get experience with. Have you heard of this lens before? Is it even compatible with mounting lenses to the back of it? It has a wide rear diameter (70mm)
 
That is a big lens. It is made for projection but it will do the job. A mount that will fit that will cost at least twice what the lens did (if you can find one at all) and you'll need a framework to support the weight (at that size could be as much as 2kg or more). I've got one a similar size 2.2kg, that's almost as much as my HVX. I've played with it but never used it in anger. I suspect the minimum focus will be 8m or more. It may be fixed focus because I don't see any markings but that is unlikely for a projection lens. The glass looks okay from the photos and you'll definitely gain a better appreciation for the features you want in your next one by doing so. You won't be able to do much with this one. Your best bet will be to build a wooden frame that supports it in front of the taking lens rather than a clamp attaching it directly to the lens. You don't want to damage your filter thread. The price you paid is about right.

The features you want are a rear lens as big as possible and the overall length to be as short as possible (allows a wider taking lens), the weight to be a wieldy 500g or less (the Sankor 16c is a good one that's half that), and the ability to focus as close as 1.5m. Fixed focus is desirable as is 1.5x stretch. If you can find one with a front filter thread it is much easier to mount diopters.

If you are patient and check ebay three times a day you'll eventually be able to find a good one for a reasonable price. I have 6 - my best one cost me $45 delivered, a Mosty-SE, a model that I have not seen before or since. It has a 48mm rear lens, and weighs less than 350g. I bought a 52mm to 48mm step ring and a rotating filter that I pushed the glass out of and had a working solution for just over $60. I believe it is from a 16mm slide projector. I thought it was 1.5x when I bought it but in testing it measures 1.7x. I believe most 2x are in fact less than 2x when tested. I have since bought a Sankor 16c and Singer 16d (two desirable models) which cost me about $280 for the pair (a good price) and the redstan mounts cost me a further $140.

I need to play with the new ones some more but each of my three good options have a compromise. They all have good optics, each flares in a different (but good) way. The Mosty has a large rear lens, a rear thread and can stop down to f8 on a 50mm taking lens before it vignettes. The Sankor is the sharpest, lightest and has a front filter thread but vignettes on an 85mm at f4. The Singer has a front filter clamp I bought from redstan and a large rear opening but is about as big as I would want to work with. I also have a 1.5x Delrama but it has a lot of light loss which doesn't work out too good with my HVX/M2encore combo which already loses a lot of light. On the other hand it's 1.5x and fixed focus. So as you can see there's no perfect solution without the big bucks.

Kostas has shown me his list of anamorphics for sale. All of them are desirable models at fair market price. On ebay your best bet is probably to keep an eye for a Sankor 16c. On the smaller sensor size it should match with a 50mm taking lens. The 16c is available under a number of other brand names including Singer, Eiki and many others. With patience you should be able to get one for as little as £100-150 in good or better condition. With less patience £200-250 will net you a good one.
 
Great reply. Just to add something, the Nikon cameras you are using are full frame, whereas the FS100 is crop sensor.
There are far more options available for shooting anamorphic on crop sensor, rather than on full frame.
You can expect to find some nice and rare 1.5x anamorphots for crop sensor, whereas only Iscoramas would be suited for shooting x1.5 anamorphic on full frame...
Just a heads up...
 
Egg Born Son said:
That is a big lens. It is made for projection but it will do the job. A mount that will fit that will cost at least twice what the lens did (if you can find one at all) and you'll need a framework to support the weight (at that size could be as much as 2kg or more). I've got one a similar size 2.2kg, that's almost as much as my HVX. I've played with it but never used it in anger. I suspect the minimum focus will be 8m or more. It may be fixed focus because I don't see any markings but that is unlikely for a projection lens. The glass looks okay from the photos and you'll definitely gain a better appreciation for the features you want in your next one by doing so. You won't be able to do much with this one. Your best bet will be to build a wooden frame that supports it in front of the taking lens rather than a clamp attaching it directly to the lens. You don't want to damage your filter thread. The price you paid is about right.

The features you want are a rear lens as big as possible and the overall length to be as short as possible (allows a wider taking lens), the weight to be a wieldy 500g or less (the Sankor 16c is a good one that's half that), and the ability to focus as close as 1.5m. Fixed focus is desirable as is 1.5x stretch. If you can find one with a front filter thread it is much easier to mount diopters.

If you are patient and check ebay three times a day you'll eventually be able to find a good one for a reasonable price. I have 6 - my best one cost me $45 delivered, a Mosty-SE, a model that I have not seen before or since. It has a 48mm rear lens, and weighs less than 350g. I bought a 52mm to 48mm step ring and a rotating filter that I pushed the glass out of and had a working solution for just over $60. I believe it is from a 16mm slide projector. I thought it was 1.5x when I bought it but in testing it measures 1.7x. I believe most 2x are in fact less than 2x when tested. I have since bought a Sankor 16c and Singer 16d (two desirable models) which cost me about $280 for the pair (a good price) and the redstan mounts cost me a further $140.

I need to play with the new ones some more but each of my three good options have a compromise. They all have good optics, each flares in a different (but good) way. The Mosty has a large rear lens, a rear thread and can stop down to f8 on a 50mm taking lens before it vignettes. The Sankor is the sharpest, lightest and has a front filter thread but vignettes on an 85mm at f4. The Singer has a front filter clamp I bought from redstan and a large rear opening but is about as big as I would want to work with. I also have a 1.5x Delrama but it has a lot of light loss which doesn't work out too good with my HVX/M2encore combo which already loses a lot of light. On the other hand it's 1.5x and fixed focus. So as you can see there's no perfect solution without the big bucks.

Kostas has shown me his list of anamorphics for sale. All of them are desirable models at fair market price. On ebay your best bet is probably to keep an eye for a Sankor 16c. On the smaller sensor size it should match with a 50mm taking lens. The 16c is available under a number of other brand names including Singer, Eiki and many others. With patience you should be able to get one for as little as £100-150 in good or better condition. With less patience £200-250 will net you a good one.
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Thanks for the in-depth reply! Much appreciated! My only problem with the smaller lenses (Sankor/Singer) is that it, as you've said, the minimum usable focal length is around 85mm. If this lens that I just bought is a real pain to use then I may just get one of those ones. I am looking into getting a 15mm rods system that can support it, but I might build extra housing just in case. The clamp is my only problem at the moment, I will probably have to make my own to fit it onto other lenses.

Have you got any real life(not just charts ;)) footage from the Mosty-SE? Would be great to see!


kostas said:
Great reply. Just to add something, the Nikon cameras you are using are full frame, whereas the FS100 is crop sensor.
There are far more options available for shooting anamorphic on crop sensor, rather than on full frame.
You can expect to find some nice and rare 1.5x anamorphots for crop sensor, whereas only Iscoramas would be suited for shooting x1.5 anamorphic on full frame...
Just a heads up...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up. My D7000 is actually crop sensor so it should be fine. If I do get the D800 it has a crop function, so it can act like a crop sensor. I'm still trying to figure out which is best for me, I'm slightly learning towards the FS100 because it is a proper video camera, but full frame is a very pleasing aesthetic!
 
With the crop sensor its not so bad. You will find it will be fine down to 50mm, 85mm is for full frame. I have a 35mm adapter but if I zoom all the way in on the ground glass I get pretty close to a crop sensor frame. The downside is that the grain of the GG gets larger but it's not all bad - I just think of it as 16mm. That of course won't be an issue for you with the DSLR. The Sankor 16c may be as little as a tenth of the weight of yours. It will benefit from rails and a $30 lens support but doesn't need it, it is just about light enough to be supported by a metal filter thread. The 16d weighs twice that and I wouldn't want to use the 16d without some form of support.

I have some embarrassing lighting tests for my aborted Warfest entry using the Mosty featuring myself as a stand in for the actors (ungroomed and wearing clothes that don't fit). It hasn't been rendered but I doubt it would give you much of an insight as to what it would look like on your DSLR. I have a 3ccd HVX with M2encore adapter, a combination that I'm sure would have a greater impact on the final image than the anamorphic. I had concluded from these tests not to use the anamorphic for the fest. It would have overcomplicated the shoot adding an unnecessary layer of technical difficulty. Now I've pulled out of Warfest I was planning on doing some little unscripted shorts with my new toys over the next couple of weeks. I've just had my first play with premiere pro so now I can use my P2 cards directly I need to generate some footage to play with.
 
Egg Born Son said:
With the crop sensor its not so bad. You will find it will be fine down to 50mm, 85mm is for full frame. I have a 35mm adapter but if I zoom all the way in on the ground glass I get pretty close to a crop sensor frame. The downside is that the grain of the GG gets larger but it's not all bad - I just think of it as 16mm. That of course won't be an issue for you with the DSLR. The Sankor 16c may be as little as a tenth of the weight of yours. It will benefit from rails and a $30 lens support but doesn't need it, it is just about light enough to be supported by a metal filter thread. The 16d weighs twice that and I wouldn't want to use the 16d without some form of support.

I have some embarrassing lighting tests for my aborted Warfest entry using the Mosty featuring myself as a stand in for the actors (ungroomed and wearing clothes that don't fit). It hasn't been rendered but I doubt it would give you much of an insight as to what it would look like on your DSLR. I have a 3ccd HVX with M2encore adapter, a combination that I'm sure would have a greater impact on the final image than the anamorphic. I had concluded from these tests not to use the anamorphic for the fest. It would have overcomplicated the shoot adding an unnecessary layer of technical difficulty. Now I've pulled out of Warfest I was planning on doing some little unscripted shorts with my new toys over the next couple of weeks. I've just had my first play with premiere pro so now I can use my P2 cards directly I need to generate some footage to play with.
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Thank you for the wise words (and kostas). Maybe a variation of the Sankor will be my next anamorphic lens. They seem pretty common, I just saw a Proskar 16-B go for £68.

Fair enough, just make sure you post the shorts once you've finished ;)
 
Ill ask the embarassing question here: do anamorphic lenses crop the video to 2.35:1 or something? I always thought making the video anamorphic meant adding black bars manually over the footage.

</noob>
 
Stuntman321 said:
Ill ask the embarassing question here: do anamorphic lenses crop the video to 2.35:1 or something? I always thought making the video anamorphic meant adding black bars manually over the footage.

</noob>
Click to expand...

I guess you have a lot of reading to do, but to cut a long story short:
Widescreen anamorphic contains video that has the same frame size in pixels as traditional fullscreen video, but uses wider pixels.
That way you preserve resolution (adding simply black crop bars would reduce your resolution), and when you "unsqueeze" your image in post you end up with a frame which is wider horizontally and that has horizontal black bars. Or in other words, it is like having a wider horizontal field of view, whilst keeping the vertical field of view unchanged.
Apart from the more cinematic aspect ratio, anamorphic lenses are praised because they slightly "soften" ultra sharp dslr footage providing a more organic look, they provide the desired oblong bokeh, and sometimes nice flares and streaks.
It is rather difficult working with anamorphic lenses, and an extra factor to control, but, eventually, when you get it right it is much more rewarding optically than simply cropping...
 
Thank you for the detailed response kostas, what should I google or where can I go to read more on it? Or more importantly, see what you're talking about visually?
 
Check out this thread from the begining, follow the anamorphic group on vimeo https://vimeo.com/groups/anamorphic (lot of clips in there, forums too), check out the anamorphic thread on cinema5d.com http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7022.
A lot of information in there. Maybe these are good starting points, even if information is a little bit diffuse, and not in the right order.
But I cannot suggest a "textbook" for anamorphics, apart maybe from the "anamorphic shooter's guide" from Andrew Reid on EOSHD http://www.eoshd.com/anamorphic-guide
Good luck...
 
This is a picture taken from the anamorphic projector lens i just got. As you can see its soft as s***! I'm thinking it might be a focus problem?

hfNJuh.jpg


I've opened it up as much as I can but am now stuck here. Any one know what the M could stand for? its on the front of the lens under the cover

8iE5Kh.jpg


Also, I'm not sure what this is.

K5HtJh.jpg


If anyone knows what I can do to get a better picture out from the lens please do tell me! Otherwise its going back on ebay for spares/parts!

Also, Can anyone explain why when I look through the lens with my eye, its pretty sharp and in focus, but when I put the camera and lens there it just goes all blurry!?
 
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