An open letter to Panasonic

DLD said:
It'll run smack into C100 MK II and a ton of people will stick with Canon.
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If you have a C100 and a bunch of EF lenses, or if you're a 5D/7D shooter with EF lenses, this camera makes no sense on paper. This camera strikes me as a great idea for folk who don't have a lot of cash invested in lenses. But it also looks like a good choice for folks who own a HMC150/AC130 type camera and would like to have something with a larger sensor, but don't have the budget or desire to invest in a bunch of different lenses that are still photography lenses first and foremost. Half the appeal for me is that it replaces both my AF100 AND HMC150 in one swoop, while my GH4 can stick around as a B-cam or special projects.

I think that's something a lot of folks seem to be missing... it appeals to folks using 1/3" cameras who don't want to buy a second camera, or have a budget issues where it needs to be either 1/3" fixed lens or large sensor with removable still photography lenses, but not both.
 
I owned the DVX100, HVX200 and GH2. Panny had me hooked but then Blackmagic came in with the Cinema Camera and I bought it because was a game changer. The DVX-200 may meet some people's needs but not mine. The URSA mini is exactly the camera you dream up when you're bullshi**** with your filmmaker friends about the perfect camera.

It's a shame because all of these "cinema cameras" owe a huge debt -- maybe their existence to Panny. The DVX100 was revolutionary and has in some small way influenced everything since...
 
Dear Panasonic:

I am so disappointed. You have missed the boat.....yes, the new DVX200 looks like a nice little 4k run and gun camera....if it can perform but it is crippled from the start....consumer codex., 2.8 F lens an what is that "Red" coloring about....all in all this is not what all of us have been vocalizing to you through this blog an others. Jan and Barry Green and others in the industry have been passing to you what was wanted for a AF200 for years.

I have used eight Panasonic cameras (HMC40, MC150, 2 - AC160s, PX270, AF100a, GH3 and GH4 with interface unit, plus all the M43 Lumis lens and prime lens set) in my video business (that's a lot of purchases and money spent on Panasonic products). I trusted you to keep bring out the cameras I could use for my future video business. I need a AF200 like we have been asking for and waiting for, but you didn't listen and didn't deliver, so now I am looking to Sony, JVC or Black Magic for all of my future camera purchases and that will be your loss of sales.
 
William_Robinette said:
You are not what Panasonic Broadcast is going for. You and I are a very small portion of shooters that is much exaggerated on these type of boards. I won't buy this camera, but Panasonic is doing what is good for them. This camera will sell. A lot.
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I actually disagree here - see the thing is, Panny Broadcast already had a lot of good fixed lens camera options. From the tease, to the marketing, the name itself - this camera screens "we are targeting the DVX100 user base" - even the fact that it's M4/3 based without the mount. (side note: why the F wants m4/3 based if not for the lens mount? I'm not in live with the M4/3 sensor size, it's the lens mount and lens sizes. This would have been better as an S35 sensor since you can only stop down to F/2.8 which is pretty lame on an M4/3 camera. I rarely EVER shoot about F/2.8 for any of my work, which I realize is artistic preference, but the point stands).

Point is, we WERE what Panny was going for with this camera. It's evident in the marketing and naming and features and even their existing broadcast focused line up. No, Panny dropped the ball here - though I have no doubt a segment of this market will happily bite. But not the artistic cinematographers - as the open letter stated, the VAST majority of those folk will be far too off put by the lens options, etc. And I would also argue the broadcast market needs and wants more than what this camera is offering in terms of storage mediums and codecs, etc.

The DVX200 as it is is a fine camera that no one was really asking for. I am sure it will sell and I am happy to be wrong, but I will strongly predict it will be no where the hit the DVX100 ever was. It will remain a niche market for "live event video guys", in an age where most of the good ones have moved on to become "live event cinematographers". I've upped my game a whole lot since 2004 and the DVX style body doesn't cut it anymore. The world may not revolve around me, but there's a whole lot of people like me - many of whom this camera was squarely aimed at.

Bottom line: Panny has been entirely absent from the midrange pro line of interchangeable cameras. They have nothing between $2,000-$10,000 for this segment. It's been completely relinquished to Sony, BMC, Canon, etc. Which means anyone who has been waiting on Panny is likely at about the end of their rope. There is clearly a huge market for these kinds of cameras, if not, every other brand wouldn't be pushing them so hard.

Sad.
 
Mike Harvey said:
If you have a C100 and a bunch of EF lenses, or if you're a 5D/7D shooter with EF lenses, this camera makes no sense on paper. This camera strikes me as a great idea for folk who don't have a lot of cash invested in lenses. But it also looks like a good choice for folks who own a HMC150/AC130 type camera and would like to have something with a larger sensor, but don't have the budget or desire to invest in a bunch of different lenses that are still photography lenses first and foremost. Half the appeal for me is that it replaces both my AF100 AND HMC150 in one swoop, while my GH4 can stick around as a B-cam or special projects...
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I basically agree ... except there are a lot of folks with the MFT lenses also and I tend to think that a $5,000 investment at this day and age should be on an interchangeable lens model.

Naturally, we can only follow how these cameras sell off major online retailers but I would think that this particular model will get squeezed out by C100 MK II, URSA Mini and FS-7. For some people, this will definitely hit a sweet spot but IMO there won't be that many of them and it'll be due to the marketing, not technological, factors.

BTW, I also disagree with Noel that there won't be another AF-200 (naturally, the model itself might be named differently). With the 4K market still being in its nascent stage, the Japanese conglomerates yield these various sectors to each other in order to recap their initial outlays. After the market matures in a couple of years and dozens of 4K IL and FL cameras are released, this niche will be filled by several products. As it stands, the Japanese companies excessive friendships with each other only let their competitors - BMD, Cion and Samsung - in ... at least, for the time being.
 
Not sure how 'representative' this site is of the market, but it sounds like there a lot of people disappointed by the lack of a AF100 successor. (myself included!)
I'm not ripping on the DVX200. It seems decent at a glance and there's a definitely a market for a fixed lens camera.
But Panasonic missed the boat by not offering an interchangeable lens version as well. The awaited AF200. "Cash-strapped" or not; it wouldn't have really cost much more to develop 2 cameras.
Look at JVC's new 4k line up; it looks like the same body use on all 3 cameras. Panny could have gone the same route.
Perhaps their lack of 'foresight' these days is why their sales are down.
The niche players are happy to fill 'the void.'
And I'll be happy to give them my money...
 
I would have loved an AF100 replacement. It would have fit right into the kit I already own. But that said the DVX200 looks like a great solution to a lot of shooing needs. Many shoots I do could be a lot easier and faster with something like that. I will be taking a look at it when it turns up.

Right tool for the job. It looks like a very versatile tool.
 
EndCredits said:
I would have loved an AF100 replacement. It would have fit right into the kit I already own. But that said the DVX200 looks like a great solution to a lot of shooing needs. Many shoots I do could be a lot easier and faster with something like that. I will be taking a look at it when it turns up.

Right tool for the job. It looks like a very versatile tool.
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Same here. I'm mostly concerned with the low light capabilities of the DVX200. If it's significantly better than a GH4 + 35-100mm f/2.8 lens, I might purchase this.
 
A real question for those defending the dvx200, why would anyone buy it over the hcx1000? It seems a much superior 4k panasonic product that fits the uses you guys have been mentioning for less $. Not trying to start an argument, just looking for reasons I may not have considered.
 
tacotim said:
A real question for those defending the dvx200, why would anyone buy it over the hcx1000? It seems a much superior 4k panasonic product that fits the uses you guys have been mentioning for less $. Not trying to start an argument, just looking for reasons I may not have considered.
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Here are a few reasons...

1) From what I've read, the low light of the X1000 is slightly worse than the HMC150. Not that the HMC150 is bad, but it's also been out about, what, 5 or 6 years? Between an X1000 and AC130a, I'll take the AC130a. A new, improved, dedicated video m4/3 sensor... even at f4.5... should be much better than the X1000's sensor in low light. I'm hoping it has the PX270's low-light tech. If it does, even better.

2) The 3G HD-SDI out is going to be a big selling point for some folks... 10bit 4:2:2 4K to an external recorder is something the X1000 doesn't offer (at least, it doesn't to the best of my knowledge). [EDIT] My goof up... I was under the impression 3G HD-SDI supported 4k. It doesn't. But the HDMI 2.0 port does.

3) The DVX200 will have Vlog-L... to the best of my knowledge, the X1000 won't get it.

4) And most importantly, the DoF of the m4/3 sensor is more than worth the trade off of the shorter zoom than the X1000. If the lens were one of Panasonic's line of X lenses, it would be 18-183mm. That replaces 3 of my lenses for my AF100. Depending on how quickly it moves to f4.5, I'm guessing (*guessing*) that it will be around f3.5 at the equivalent of 100mm. Less than a stop slower than my 35-100mm f2.8 X lens is worth the convenience. It basically mashes my AF100 and HMC150 into one camera. Not having to swap lenses in a run-and-gun situation while retaining the same DoF? Oh, heck yeah.
 
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When Jan changed jobs within Panasonic the "AF" lost its "champion". I'm not surprised there wasn't an upgrade to the AF-100 at NAB. Time to move on. Although more pricey there are some good alternatives to the AF. I'm in the twilight of my career and will continue to use my trusty AF-100 on most projects and rent with the client demands an alternative.
 
There are so many great big sensor cameras with interchangeble lenses. This seems to be what everyone has been focusing on for years now. And for some reason people automatically thinks that this will make your productions better.

Finally, we can see big sensor cameras with fixed lenses. I for one salute this from all my heart. Most of time now I shoot with canon glass on various super 35mm cameras (fs700, c300 etc), and sure for a lot of stuff it´s great. At leats it looks great. However, there are a lot of productions when one camera is more then enough to handle, and finally we can (hopefully) get to shoot efficently run and gun style and get the look everyone want these days.

I recently did a production in Myanmar, and the director insted to use her old HVX170. There was only the two of us, and there were so many challenging situasions that I am truly glad she did. Looking at the image makes me a bit sad, compared to what I am used too these days. But seeing all the really great and important shots we could have lost with a lot of other cameras really made me think.

I hope we see many more cameras like this in the future, cause truly it would make life a lot easier for some of us that shoot documentaries in challenging situations where we cant waste time changing lenses, removing dust an fiddle about with complicated rigs and set-ups. Give me 422 10 bit internal and this is the camera I have been dreaming about for years. Finally we don´t have to choose between "filmatic" image quality and being sure we get the footage we need. Finally we can get the best of both worlds (hopefully). Maybe not with this camera, but maybe in the future we see more of these big sensor cameras with fixed lenses.
 
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