Am I the only one that wishes panasonic was part of the HDV pact and used tape?

4 Track stereo became the 8 Track became the cassette became the CD became mp3's.
A Kodachrome slide now a 60MB digital file.
Video tape camcorders will soon/someday become tapeless. That's a fact (pretty sure). Video tape will be as obsolete as still photography film is becoming. It isn't that the old technology doesn't work, it is because better, easier solutions are replacing them. The only problem is that in the beginning of each transition there is a cost penalty. Good news is that penalty usually goes away.... just before the next new technology arrives. It won't be too long when we have 1TB (not MB or GB) P2 cards/flash memory and 100TB hard drives at reasonable prices. The question most people have to ask themselves is "when will I step in?". The ones who are fanatical and/or can afford it will be 1st. The careful, prudent and budget-minded usually wait for all to settle down (prices). 1st can be dangerous and expesive... but way more fun.
 
leave the guy alone guys!
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He asked for it.

honestly, why in the hell does the HVX have a tape drive anyway?
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Because it does. It shoots MiniDV remember?

it's an HD camera.
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And a whole lot more.

the DVX was released how many years ago?
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October 10, 2002

3 years ago. Gasp!

DV is yesterday.
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Well if you say so I better run out and buy that HD set I've had my eye on.

the HVX IS in effect the replacement of the DVX.
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Not at all. Thats what the DVX 'B' is for.

the price will come down when others release HD cameras.
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Now you're making sense
 
Alright, fine whatever. I asked for it. I cried and begged an pleaded.

I never should have thought that it'd be nice to have a 24p hd camera that captured to tape. I must be ****ing nuts because certainly there is no XL H1 of HD100. Who am I to think such a thing could exist. I asked for too damn much. And in doing so I asked to be ridiclued by this board.

All I ever said was that I wish there could be a Xl H1 or HD100 type of cam in a the dvx type form factor. And I'm sorry for turning to my favorite camera company one that's brought me hours of happiness with the dvx and wish they did it again.

I never once said "*bleep* the ag-hvx200" I just wished that it or something like it got it to tape. And for there to be such a product it would have to be hdv(most likely) and that's why I wish panasonic hadn't backed out of the hdv alliance. Because they're not part of it I think there probably won't be any panasonic consumer, prosumer or what ever the hell you want to call it cameras. What would a panasonic version of an HC1 record in, DVCPRO HD? Yeah right. Panasonic not being part of the alliance means that there isn't much chance for such products to exist. Unless ONCE AGAIN, they develop their own format and if they do that there will probably be a premium to pay.

And no, I don't need an HVX to win an award of whatever, I know that, I just want the best picture possible and I think we all agree that hd has a better picture than dv.

I just don't see why wishing that there was an XL H1 or HD100 type camera(as in frame rates) in a dvx-hvx body is so stupid. But hey I'm just a whiny stupid college student, what do I know anyway right?
 
I never meant any offense ecking, just debating the points with you here.

By the way, I don't think variable frame speeds would be possible in HDV, a limitation of the spec I imagine. Then again, NTSC doesn't include 24p in its spec and we have the DVX (and the Xl2, and the...you get the picture).

There is nothing wrong with wishing an HDV DVX were out, and it's not a stupid thing to say... just unrealistic anytime in the near future given the release of the HVX in a few months.
(in my opinion)
 
First...................profanity please. Take it down a level.

Second..............Hey. I wish I could afford a home in my native San Diego. What can I do?
 
What would a panasonic version of an HC1 record in, DVCPRO HD? Yeah right. Panasonic not being part of the alliance means that there isn't much chance for such products to exist. Unless ONCE AGAIN, they develop their own format and if they do that there will probably be a premium to pay.
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I bet Panasonic would come out with an HDV camera.. in the consumer market... cause that is what I think HDV is ... a consumer format.. (and yes.. so is DV.. but I work with what i have)

What is that panasonic is charging a premium for? That sounds like a made up fact... P2 is expensive because of it's design and because of supply and demand.. What is it people don't understand about that...

and you have the exact camera your looking for in the Sony Z1...

HDV doesn't make it easy for multiple frame rates to be implored. How do you retrieve that data from the MPEG2 stream? Frame Dependance is a surefire way to kill any hope of extracting a pulldown with any sort of reliability.. or quality..

Just use your DVX now and make some movies... and stop being a "whiny" college kid..

note: I also am a whiny college kid. Or in my canadain version.. a whiny university kid?
 
I'll be on your side ecking.

I really can't see why this has annoyed you guys so much!

The dude just wishes he could make HD films to get the best quality. He should be pissed off the HVX is so expensive! I am, and I can afford it.

I wouldn't worry to much though ecking, there is clearly a hole in the market, just as you say, and it won't take long for someone to plug it with a HDV GL3 type camera. A market segment is being neglected here - and they should be pissed off - these companies are here to serve us and in exchange we pay them money for products.

In the meantime, keep shooting with the DVX so that when the day comes to move to HD you have fully benefitted from experience in SD.

That is how I feel anyway, but personally I think the world should rotate around the customer, that is how I treat my customers and wish big corporations would do the same. Having Jan on this board regularly is a step in the right direction.

Feel free to disagree with me though, I am an over-demanding bastard.
 
First....Sorry, I didn't know that profanity was a thing, I've seen it on these boards before, I'll edit my post.

Second....You can get a home in San Diego if your willing to wait until there are better homes and the home you wanted becomes outdated and cheap. That's what you've all suggested I do.
 
I'm a whiny college kid.

But I agree with John. The dvx holds up pretty well on blow ups, and if you want a great image, just rent a super 16 set up for a week or two. Also, if you can't afford an hvx, you can probably afford to rent one. I'd prefer tape to p2 if it weren't for the fact that working with tape sucks and hdv is a pretty bad format. The real question here is "who would prefer cheap?" and all of us would.... Unfortuantely, good and cheap aren't always the same thing and I'd take good over cheap if I had the money. (But I don't, so I'm skipping on this generation.)

I'd just go for 16mm, though. 16mm looks beautiful and renting a camera is cheap, and stock plus processing aren't bad if you shoot economically.
 
Loki: I'm a canadian university student too, I just said college for the sake of simplicity. And the Z1U doesn't do 24p or 24f or whatever, cf24 is junk from what I've heard. I mention a premium because when you're making your own products it's more expensive beause your using stuff that not as many other companies use. For instance apple computers are expensive because they make their own stuff the parts aren't the run of the mill internals that pc's use so it's costs them more to be alone in their struggle and that price is passed along to us.

mmm: Word man! I agree whole heartedly. There is a hole in the market, I think and I just wished panasonic would fill it, that's all. If they won't, fine I'll make due until another company steps in. I'll just miss the colors the panasonic gives.
 
That is how I feel anyway, but personally I think the world should rotate around the customer, that is how I treat my customers and wish big corporations would do the same.
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Panasonic has done just that. Some of you may not remember this but we had a camera wishlist last year. All the features we wanted in an upgrade to the DVX. We got most of the features we wanted, even what we thought were pipedream features like variable frame rates, native 16X9, and HD.

And comparing buying a home to a camera seems a little farfetched. I see you're grief Ecking, but I think at this point you're just throwing kindling on the fire. The HVX isn't out yet and you're complaining that Panasonic didn't go with HDV. You may be surprised by the workflow of P2. Give it a chance.

P2 is pricey at this point, but the HVX cam is pretty affordable at 6K. Its been rehashed to death, but there are workable recoding options besides P2, even for event videographers.
 
Policar: I've made 4 16mm short and worked on 8 others in various positions and this whole HD thing really is making me look at film again. While I was making 16mm films I had a friend that had an original dvx100 and used it for music videos and showed it me. At first I thought digital was bs, but then I had to return my 16mm camera and still needed to do pickups so I borrowed his dvx and actually was able to get the footage to match well enough that when it was projected it looked fine. That was when I fell in love with the digital format. I didn't want to go back. But maybe I should. After I'm done my feature if I'm not satisfied with it maybe I'll give film a try after that.
 
Apple has expensive computers because they choose to have a high profit margin on their hardware.

I will say this... the reason I think that people are annoyed (myself included... well not really anymore but anywho) is because there are messages like this all the time here... this forum is very thick headed about technology...

Panasonic has CLEARLY listened to the items and wishes of this forum because there are many many features on the HVX that were on that list and Jan has said we have influenced it... soooo...

this is what bothers me, you want everything in 1 package. Add in HDV to the camera.. and I bet the price would go up even further... I am not sure on this so don't quote me, but I assume Panasonic would have to license the HDV tech if they are not part of the consortium.

You come off as whiny because you already own a DVX and are simply asking for more more more.... 90% of the people on this (and I say that with the utmost confindence) at not low-budget indie filmmakers.. they are no-budget indie filmmakers(myself included). Many people on here don't even have a camera so this is why I cannot read your messages without getting annoyed.. you have a means to end, yet you just want more.

this has been mentioned before, but if you want more, then try renting an actual HD camera.. The HVX, XLH1, HD100 or the Z1... are not real HD cameras at all..they have more pixels. big deal.

my point is, which I am sure is pretty clear by now, that you should really just work with what you have.

This is not a flame, this is my common sense opinion. And being canadian, we are probably paying closer to 11K for this camera...
 
Isaac Brody: Yeah I guess I'm just gonna sit this whole HD thing out for a while and see what happens. And I wasn't complaining that the hvx wasn't hdv I just wish there were two cameras or something. I managed to save enough for an hvx(I think it's enough) but I don't have enough for any p2 cards or firestores, so I guess I'll just save my money.
 
Isaac_Brody said:
Panasonic has done just that. Some of you may not remember this but we had a camera wishlist last year. All the features we wanted in an upgrade to the DVX. We got most of the features we wanted, even what we thought were pipedream features like variable frame rates, native 16X9, and HD.
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Isaac...you cut the next line! I did give Pany and Jan credit for how they treat us. However, the low end Indie market has been neglected with the current crop of HD(V) cameras. The Sony is the right price, but no 24p/25p.

So what do you do if you aren't getting what you want from a company? Kick up the biggest fuss you can. If noone says anything, how are Pany going to know how people feel????

I am amazed everyone isn't right behind ecking! There are loads of people who want to shoot progressive HD now but can't afford $6K+. The solution isn't to shut up and accept that you are stuck with DV! No! Shout to the manufacturers that you want a camera in your price range, and soon. I am sure it is already in the pipeline though and will sell by the 1,000s.

Sorry if I am ranting, but I know how ecking feels - he just wants the best for his films, don't we all..?
 
Loki: I worked my ass off to get my dvx and I once again worked my ass off to get the money for an HVX. I have every right to wish I could get a product I want for the money I have, I am the consumer. I do work with what I have and have to money to want to work with more, but it turns out I'm gonna need more than just the camera this time around. Which is too bad for me, yeah I know you've all said it already. That doesn't mean I can't wish, or is this board against freedom of opinion?

Like I said I don't want hvx to also do hdv I just want a dvx type cam that records to tape, that doesn't mean it and the hvx can't co-exist man.
 
mmm: Exacttly! Maybe it'll give Jan ideas to pitch or something, but it's not likely if she see that most users find it a dumb idea.
 
ecking said:
You can get a home in San Diego if your willing to wait until there are better homes and the home you wanted becomes outdated and cheap. That's what you've all suggested I do.
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That's the best response I've read in a while
:)

you're growing on me ecking


(although to be fair, we also suggested you rent...which I guess could carry over to the house analogy)
 
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