almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

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Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

I'm not interested in a "Jumpstart" and I'm not all that interested in an all around video guide, although for $24 bucks I'd probably pick it up.

But an in-depth indie film guide which really explained everything on the camera, how to best use it in a variety of shooting situations and how to best manipulate the footage in post? I'd pay bucks...

Matt
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

That's how I'd approach it.

It's on the table of discussion, just have to prioritize the projects first... :)
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

Don't make me come there!!!

Actually my folks live in Henderson, I'll be in Vegas shortly....

Hence the avatar.

Matt
AKA: Mr. Las Vegas
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

[quote author=John Hudson link=board=XL2;num=1097479682;start=330#332 date=12/05/04 at 21:48:38]I have honestly yet to see any OMFG footage from the XL2.  I'm not saying I won't.  I've seen some good footage but not anything that has made me go OMG!  Perhaps I am spoiled by the DVX100 and have already been to Paris.[/quote]

I'm not insighting a riot here but what are you expecting to see? 90% of the OMFG factor is already in the DVX. The XL2 adds some nice new features but I can't imagine anything OMFG that can come out of it that the DVX hasn't already shown possible other than it's amazing clarity and res in 16x9 mode when viewed on a high end pro monitor. It is a differen tool and I had a hard time adjusting myself. I wanted to see DVX style color from it and that is not its selling point.

Unless you think everything posted is inferior in every way to the DVX I just don't think you are going to be blown away by it. It holds its own against the DVX and is better in a few areas but for the most part it is the equal partner to the DVX. IT just delivers a slightly different syle of image.
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

I'm not insighting a riot here but what are you expecting to see? 90% of the OMFG factor is already in the DVX.
Click to expand...

Kind of my point.

Unless you think everything posted is inferior in every way to the DVX I just don't think you are going to be blown away by it. It holds its own against the DVX and is better in a few areas but for the most part it is the equal partner to the DVX. IT just delivers a slightly different syle of image.
Click to expand...

I am not biased if that is what you are worried about. I have seen DVX footage that has looked like ass on a stick and the OMFG footage.

Here's the best way I can put this. They are both great cameras. I dont think you can terribly wrong with either choice; I pick the DVX100 for the reasons we all know. The OMFG footage I refer to is going to come down to the camera operator. Thats all I meant by that. Im not saying the Xl2 isnt killer footage. It is. There is a still a leaning video side in my subjective eyes but still super nice footage.

You don't have to worry about inciting a riot iceman.
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

Sweet! I didn't mean to come off harsh at all! Just stating that I really think the 2 cameras are so close that the real difference is only going to be the longer telephoto of the XL2 vs. the wider of the DVX. Even then each can be compensated for my adapters. Both of these cameras are awesome. But as usual 1 camera that had all the good features of both would be ideal! I do miss the ease of use that I had with my DVX....the LCD and size of the unit alone made it ideal for run and gun stuff. I think my XL2 is a big freaking Hog when I have to shoot spontaneous stuff. However the long lens makes up for that in a lot of situations.

Anyway I was just stating that maybe we are expecting the XL2 to do something so amazing that it is just not realisitic. In all honesty I look at the Xl2 as about the equivalent improvement of the DVX100A of the original. It had some really nice new features but it really was a minor upgrade as most of the kick ass features were already intact. The xl2 (while the color curve is questionable) is just a little better than the DVX100A as far as perceived res and a cleaner, less noisy image. Believe me when I say the XL2 is capable of really awsome hi res images. Anyone who hasn't seen it full res on a hi-end monitor is really missing something cool. Now having said that it does not necessarily look like film. But I think it compares very well to digibeta or 2/3 CCD cams.

Regardless I think that if you shoot a good compostion and use the XL2 and DVX to film it and edit and color correct both you would never see the difference. The OMFG factor will be the content and compostion.

OMFG I better shut up!
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

Ok, so how would you go about color correcting it?

(I hope you realize that as an XL2 owner my question is sincere)

Matt
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

Like you would with any Matt!

Have you considered using a UV Filter like the HMC SKY?

How about using a CTB to do a WB and increase the warmth a little?

Or better put:

Can you post an example of exactly what LOOK you would like to pull off? Maybe some PAYBACK grabs?
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

have any of you guys used magic bullet, and if you have, does it have color correcting capability and are the filters as good as everyone says?
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

hey icicle, i totally agree with what you're sayin' about both cameras. i think anyone who knows their stuff and works with them long enough will get a nice image. i don't see any problem with different people having biased opinions about either, cause some people like chocolate and others vanilla (it's a matter of taste) while i've decided to go with the dvx, i can honestly say it's no landslide. in fact i feel a little buyers remorse cause i like having my cake and eating it too, but when the cake is 5K.... you get the point. seriously speaking though, we are film makers here (regardless of the machine or medium we choose to capture our ideas) so i say just pick up a camera and be a film maker. ;)
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

John,

Yes, very much so, especially the first image. I don't mean to be obtuse, really, but I've never color corrected video before so this is all pretty new to me. This week I'm going to light a scene in color and try to get that look. I'll post it raw and worked on and maybe you guys can critique it.

I hope I'm not a pain in the ass!

Matt
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

hey matt, yer not a pain in the ass, but go ahead and try that shot... i'm curious to see what you come up with even though i don't have an xl2. just remember 3 point lighting and i suggest you use full spectrum bulbs if you don't have all the lighting gear which can be really expensive. (reason I say this is that the common problem with low-budget footage is the lack of lighting or use of flourecent lights, and to counter this the recent trend on the indie scene is to use ambiant lighting such as table lamps, but they always end up being over used and you get a really dark yellow look) that's the only advice i can give, but if you already knew that, please disregard it...
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

Don't even sweat the questions.  I ask questions everyday (more than once till it sinks in).  We are a community of filmmakers and we are here to learn and share.

I think first and foremost you need to concentrate on the lighting style of Payback' which I feel you have nailed down after viewing your short.  Lighting is not going to be an issue for you.  

What will be (which is our goal) is the Post work (CC).  I think as long as you stick to your lighting design you will have no problems.  I have not even used (much less seen) an XL2 yet so I am not totally sure how to get the truest image in-camera that will bene you later in post.  But from what I can gather:

Your going to have to warm up the in-camera imagery.  Either by filter, CTB White Balance or tweaking in-camera settings to start 'warm'.  By warm I am not necasarily screaming RED.  BUt you gotta have more than COOL to start with.

Shoot something; post it.  I'll be more than happy to try and tweak it.   Anyone else CHIME IN!

l7qpayback.jpg


Reminds me of the first shootout footage.  I think it prudent to warm the XL2 up to get this look.

These are ealry grabs but I always feel the XL2 has an inbred pastiness

Picture8.jpg


Whereas the DVX is inbred warmer.

Picture9.jpg
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

yea but someone said (barry? ) the XL2 was pushing autogain in that shot, thats why it was so much brighter than th e DVX. if you watched the Sideby side Duel of the two the dvx was slightly brighter inthe dark. so maybe that pasty look is just the gain making everythign whiter/brighter, and reducign the lowlight tungsten yellow in that shot. cause in the duel, although the DVX had much more color saturation, the Xl2 wasnt desaturated enough to look pasty, IMO.
 
Re: almost there.. xl2 vs DVX side by side

blah blah blah,...24 freaking pages of the same argument recycled 10 different times. I hope when someone does in fact post some shoot out footage, that they start a new topic. It's getting old clicking through all of these pages over and over again.

Maybe I'm having a bad day.
 
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