Almost, but not quite, pleased

M

Mac

Well-known member
As you all know by now, the AF100 is a micro 4/3 camera, which means the chip is the size of 35mm movie film rather than still.

Personally I think it's a good choice because it keeps the overall size and weight down. Plus, it apparently uses affordable lenses designed for the Olympus Pen (of which I have one) and with a PL mount it will use 35mm cine lenses like Zeiss primes, which have been dropping in price but will now probably shoot back up...

Bummer is, as has been pointed out, the finder - why oh why couldn't they have mounted it on the side or at least made it modular so that it can be moved?.. who wants to handhold a brick? Professional cine cameras haven't had a rear finder since the Arri 16S or IIC! That was the 1960s! It amazes me that they missed that one - probably because they favored the LCD, which is a bad design compromise in my not so humble opinion, because I don't use them much.

Another bummer is that is doesn't use P2 cards.. what? It has been pointed out here (by Jan) that P2 technology would increase the price dramatically, but Panasonic has been pushing P2 for years, touting the fact that the cards are much more reliable, and now they introduce a perfect candidate and they pass.. very frustrating, especially since I have a bunch of P2 cards...
 
The 4/3s sensor is smaller than motion picture 35mm film. For reference, it's about as much smaller from 35mm movie film as 35mm movie film is from a full-frame sensor or film.
 
Cosimo Bullo said:
The 4/3s sensor is smaller than motion picture 35mm film. For reference, it's about as much smaller from 35mm movie film as 35mm movie film is from a full-frame sensor or film.
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Totally and completely not true.

35mm movie film is less than half the size of 35mm "full frame" still film.

The AF100's sensor is almost the same size as 35mm movie film.

35mm movie film is 36x24mm, and 35mm cinema film is 22x12mm. Clearly a massive difference, 35mm cinema film is about 1/3 the size of 35mm still film.

On the other hand, while 35mm cinema film is 22x12, the AF100 is 19x10.7. Barely any smaller at all, in comparison.
 
Mac said:
Bummer is, as has been pointed out, the finder - why oh why couldn't they have mounted it on the side or at least made it modular so that it can be moved?..
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You could always get the Redrock $595 EVF, and put it on the side or move it; it's modular.

Another bummer is that is doesn't use P2 cards..
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Totally agree, I would definitely prefer that. But that's not what it is, so... can't help that one. All we can do is ask for a second model that does incorporate P2.
 
Just discovered this camera existed (thanks to DVXuser of course). Can't wait
to learn more about it.

My plan was to purchase a EX-1 later this year, but I'm hopeful this will do everything
the EX-1 does PLUS give me the option of interchangeable lenses.

I love Panasonic. My DVX100b has been serving me professionally for 3 years. I was
never a fan of the the HVX200 (P2 cards + really soft) and I've been using my Canon 7D
for the limited HD requests I've had this year.

Hopefully the the AF100 will give me the best of both worlds. The reliability and solid
build of a DVX with the interchangeable lenses and dof of a DSLR.

Fingers crossed!

P.
 
Peter Reynolds said:
Just discovered this camera existed (thanks to DVXuser of course). Can't wait
to learn more about it.

My plan was to purchase a EX-1 later this year, but I'm hopeful this will do everything
the EX-1 does PLUS give me the option of interchangeable lenses.

I love Panasonic. My DVX100b has been serving me professionally for 3 years. I was
never a fan of the the HVX200 (P2 cards + really soft) and I've been using my Canon 7D
for the limited HD requests I've had this year.

Hopefully the the AF100 will give me the best of both worlds. The reliability and solid
build of a DVX with the interchangeable lenses and dof of a DSLR.

Fingers crossed!

P.
Click to expand...

It's not going to do everything an EX-1 will, it's a different type of camera.
But it WILL do some things an EX-1 can't do. They are different types
of cameras.......
 
I'm disappointed as well by the lack of P2 and 10 bit codec.

Have you ever shot with a DSLR ? talk a bout lousy viewing situation. DSLR's are perfect example of an Arri S view finder WITHOUT the diopter. Which is to say you have to have you're eye in one specific place in relationship to the camera and the shot in order to operate effectively. In the case of the AF100 the VF does have the capability to re orient at least 90 degrees.

The AF 100 is really supposed to merge the larger sensor concept from DSLR's with the features that one needs to shoot live action HD as something other than an after thought, such as real monitoring capability, a real VF that one can use without having to buy some accessories from a 3rd party, balanced XLR audio inputs just to name a few. I think the camera succeeds in this respect and has the added plus of tons of lens options with inexpensive adapters unlike the DSLR cameras.
I'd gladly pay an extra few K$ for a 10 bit P2 AVC I option instead of the AVC HD codec that the camera embodies. I know I 'm in the minority on that point and Panasonic is aiming to sell a ton of the AF 100's which they will probably do at the price point already named, however I wish they would offer a "pro" option AF 100 as well. If they can make a $9200 HPX 370 with 10 bit AVC I P2 camera With A lens, they surely could make a similarly priced "pro " option AF!00. The technology is has already been invented, it just needs to be repackaged.
 
Barry_Green said:
Totally agree, I would definitely prefer that. But that's not what it is, so... can't help that one. All we can do is ask for a second model that does incorporate P2.
Click to expand...

I am very convinced that this will never happen or need to happen.

SD Memory Card Design Gets 300 MB/s Injection

other similar stories

Hopefully we will be seeing SDXC chips that can write much faster than 100MB/second in 2011 and certainly we will by 2012. I would hope that one could create a simple HD-sdi to SDXC card writer (if we cannot bypass codecs and use internal SDXC chips via firmware upgrade).

One could then compress to what ever intra or wavelet-based codec they like when they dige-in the data into their editing bay while also having the possibility of saving an uncompressed file perhaps for offline editing later.
 
Steve Kahn said:
I am very convinced that this will never happen or need to happen.
Click to expand...

But the thing isn't really about speed or capacity. It's about reliability. And, to the best of my knowledge, there isn't any SD technology that mimics anything P2 or another similar system does in that regard.
 
alaskacameradude said:
It's not going to do everything an EX-1 will, it's a different type of camera.
But it WILL do some things an EX-1 can't do. They are different types
of cameras.......
Click to expand...

Understandable. I'll just be looking to see if it can accommodate the type of work
I currently do with my DVX (conferences, live events, green screen, documentary
etc). For example, does it come with a "kit" lens? Can I get something with a x20 zoom?
That combination would suite 90% of the work I do.

The other option would be to use my 7D when I need dof or timelapse and
use the EX-1 as my workhorse for everything else. Decisions, decisions.

P.
 
I just don't get people bummed out about the viewfinder. So you're saying you want it removable or not on there at all? Why? I for one will appreciate it when outdoors shooting on a bright day and too mobile to attach a bigger monitor. RED has got alot of people "modular minded". But I don't see how that spoils this camera.

Professional cine cameras haven't had a rear finder since the Arri 16S or IIC! That was the 1960s!
Click to expand...

Where else were they supposed to put the viewfinder? This is a SMALL piece of gear and the controls and LCD monitor take up all the space on the side. So where else?
To me this is like complaining that the DSLR's have their LCD screens on the back instead of mounting them on the side like all other video cameras.
 
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Michael Olsen said:
But the thing isn't really about speed or capacity. It's about reliability. And, to the best of my knowledge, there isn't any SD technology that mimics anything P2 or another similar system does in that regard.
Click to expand...

The AF100 uses SDCX/SDHC now. I would hope they are reliable. Why would you suppose they would not be at a higher bit-rate? The very design spec I quoted was intended for this very use - high data rate video.

CNET article: SD revamp to triple flash card speeds in 2012
"Flash cards are functioning more like solid-state drives in modern gadgets such as ... high-definition videocameras or video SLRs [which] have a tremendous appetite for data."
 
I just have to laugh at all these threads that are forming like this. "This camera is not good for this" or "it doesn't have these things that I want". I think we have to take a step back and look at the big picture. NO camera is ever going to be the be all, end all, camera for everybody. Maybe what we don't get from the AF100 now we get in the form that it will be released by the end of the year. I'm just finding these constant complaints are redundant and non constructive.

No one is forcing anyone to buy any camera. If you don't like it and it doesn't do what you want don't buy it. I don't really see what the issue is. If you want to perpetually wait for the perfect camera than you wish has be granted by way of another Scarlet delay.
 
I am very excited to see this cam come out. I believe many people will be pleased, myself included.

Let's have the camera get in peoples hands before we draw any conclusions. Anything until then is just speculation.
 
Hey Panasonic,
I will be purchasing this one, I am on several wait lists.
I have an idea- next time make a AF100N ("N" stands for naked)
Make just the box, no viewfinder, no LCD, no handle, keep the SD card slots to record lower rez proxies.Put in (2) HDSDI ports. Make plenty of screw holes for accessories.
My reasoning is this, I would like to use my BW viewfinder from my HDX900, NanoFlash and configure the "box" the way I want too.
Kudos for putting this out ,I believe you will have a real winner on your hands.
I cannot wait to receive mine.
Just a thought.
 
bclighting said:
I just have to laugh at all these threads that are forming like this. "This camera is not good for this" or "it doesn't have these things that I want". I think we have to take a step back and look at the big picture. NO camera is ever going to be the be all, end all, camera for everybody. Maybe what we don't get from the AF100 now we get in the form that it will be released by the end of the year. I'm just finding these constant complaints are redundant and non constructive.

No one is forcing anyone to buy any camera. If you don't like it and it doesn't do what you want don't buy it. I don't really see what the issue is. If you want to perpetually wait for the perfect camera than you wish has be granted by way of another Scarlet delay.
Click to expand...

To be fair, some of us 'video' guys are trying to figure out exactly what the AF100 is.
When you have a video camera, which uses still lenses, and you have only shot
with various video cameras, you really don't know anything about all the
lens options discussed, how a SLR lens translates into the video world, does it
have an iris ring like a 2/3 video lens? How do you zoom with it when it doesn't
have a zoom rocker? How do you focus with it? I am figuring those things out,
because the lenses used on this camera are not the typical video lenses I've
used on things like a Sony HDW 750 or a Panasonic 370 or an old Beta SP
cam or any other video camera I've ever used. So it's not necessarily trying to rip on the AF 100,
but more, to try to figure out exactly what you can and can't do with it.
I did not even KNOW if I would like it or not, I mean I knew I'd like the
shallow depth of field, but I needed (and probably still need) to learn more
information about it before I decide if I want to buy it or not. I am picking
up a lot of info on this board though.....people like Barry do a great job of
explaining it all.
 
Ever seen the Alexa? A EVF option like that wouldn't have been that hard... or even something like the XL1/2 have for their EVFs. But again, the Redrock EVF solves all issues.
 
alaskacameradude said:
To be fair, some of us 'video' guys are trying to figure out exactly what the AF100 is.
When you have a video camera, which uses still lenses, and you have only shot
with various video cameras, you really don't know anything about all the
lens options discussed, how a SLR lens translates into the video world, does it
have an iris ring like a 2/3 video lens? How do you zoom with it when it doesn't
have a zoom rocker? How do you focus with it? I am figuring those things out,
because the lenses used on this camera are not the typical video lenses I've
used on things like a Sony HDW 750 or a Panasonic 370 or an old Beta SP
cam or any other video camera I've ever used. So it's not necessarily trying to rip on the AF 100,
but more, to try to figure out exactly what you can and can't do with it.
I did not even KNOW if I would like it or not, I mean I knew I'd like the
shallow depth of field, but I needed (and probably still need) to learn more
information about it before I decide if I want to buy it or not. I am picking
up a lot of info on this board though.....people like Barry do a great job of
explaining it all.
Click to expand...

Nicely put.
 
At the risk of asking a stupid question:

I don't know if the AF100 in particular has all this, but if you have a flip-out LCD screen that:

1. is sharp
2. has a focus helper like "false color"
3. is bright enough to see in daylight

why do you want to use a viewfinder at all?

The LCD screen is easier to see when you go for different angles by holding the camera low to the ground or high above your head.
You can hold the camera at your chest instead of your head for greater stability, less fatigue.
 
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