AJA Cion vs F65

All the Cion needs to do is find another sensor . The design looks right , what's under the hood is where it's lacking.

The F65 on the hand I would argue the opposite excellent under the hood, design wise in some circles it's known as a pig when coupled to that data recorder.

Still don't know why Sony killed this camera it slays the F55.
 
You gotta feel for Sony. The F65 is way easier to deal with than an alexa with a codex on. Haters gonna hate.

they haven't killed the f65, in fact it is probably doing better now than ever. But it took time for people to appreciate it.

Everyone that comes to my house and moans about the size or weight of my F65 gets to try and lift my 535 with a 1000' mag!
 
Yes it does, it can do both 1.3x and 2x anamorphic with a de-squeeze in the viewfinder (and at no extra cost).

Personally I abhor the idea of a 2x anamorphic on a camera with a 16x9 sensor, but Sony said too many people asked them to put it on there for them to ignore. Can't blame 'em.
 
So I got the "try a Cion" email blast today. I registered to during NAB to get a test period with the camera and though I didn't expect I would be invited I did expect that there would be a "dog and pony show" in Montreal my city. I am going to buy a camera before the fall, just sold my faithful old FS100 and figured I would wait until work demanded the 4K camera and take a look at what else is out there besides the FS7 just to be sure. Not in a hurry and Cion looks interesting, Black Magic promise of Ursa Mini intrigues me and I know that I can always fall back on the FS 7 since it is proven and popular with the folks who hire us.
Unfortunately it seems that Montreal, home to the Montreal Fiilm Festival, an extremely prolific and successful feature, documentary and multi-media community was not on AJA's radar. Mistake AJA, if the language issue worries you take it from me, most of us here work in at least two languages and many three or more. We also speak Californian, New York and are quite comfortable in Floridian.
 
Yeah but you'll ever master Bostonian.

FWIW, living in Vermont, Montreal is my favorite American city.
I miss the old Biddles.
 
Brian

i may be doing a camera test in the near future which may be of interest to you, featuring the FS7 and others.
 
JMtheDP said:
What is odd is some of the BM4K footage I have seen looks very nice
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I think it goes to show the sensor is one part of the image equation, but what you do with it is another. From the other cameras I've seen using (allegedly) the same sensor, it's pretty impressive what BMD are able to get from it. Especially in the URSA body.

I'm also "unconvinced" about the Cion ergonomics, specifically the shoulder pad. It's right at the back and can't be adjusted, when I tried it at NAB it all felt quite front heavy and I wouldn't last long shooting like that. But not many others say the same so perhaps just my weak arms/shoulders? Or maybe people are just happy to see a built in shoulder pad these days?
 
I guess it depends on the size of your lens and the size of the battery you have. A large hawkwoods with a standard speed would probably balance nicely.

Does anyone have any requests for round 2, if I can make it happen?

Based on what I know of the BM4K (admittedly very little) you really need to shoot raw to get the best out of it, but on the Cion this is not possible internally - at least not yet.
 
I shot BMC4k and found the raw odd, specifically magenta blocking in skin shadows. I found the proRes just felt right. Davinci has surely moved the debayer on since last year but.

Also raw is somewhat pointless in a narrow DR sensor methinks - to me raw is about that exposure slider that can pull a moody sky out of no-where. That doesnt happen on these 2004 style industrial sensors.
 
Steve - I shouldered the Amera and the Coin at a show recently. Apples, and, er.. rotten apples.

The shoulder pad is completely mis located. Any camera rig that doesnt account for changes in lens mass is simply flawed.

S
 
JMtheDP said:
Does anyone have any requests for round 2, if I can make it happen?.
Click to expand...


I think to give the Cion any chance you need to treat it like a 2005 DP and get it right in camera, assume what comes off the camera is going to have no post applied, create a look in camera using lights or reflectors.

I think the thing will make very pretty pictures.

The intelligent 2015 DP may light less to the DR of the camera (in 709 space) and rely log/rawDR and on his post people normalising the images - a process with upsides (less lighting, less time on set, less electric resources, cheaper cameras) and downsides (post cost and competence, loss of DP control, fatter data rates)

A real review of the camera(s) would really consider how the DP intends to work

Most reviews fail to outline the parameters properly. For example people diss the sound on a BMC4k - absolute crap for 'RnG' but completely perfect if you are shooting a feature with a soundie - parameters parameters.

S
 
Of course there's a few issues there Sam - I do get where you're coming from.

The first is - it isn't 2005 anymore - it is 2015. The mode I shot my little test with was apparently AJA's idea of a "ready-to-go" profile, but I did not find the results at all acceptable.

There is also the rather large sticking point of I am not going to forgive *any* camera which so blatantly lies about its specs. So far I have yet to see a test of the Cion showing a decent, usable, dynamic range. That does not mean to say it isn't there - simply I have not seen or read about it.

I work in England, an environment you're obviously familiar with, and let's face it - our weather is unpredictable at the best of times and low-budget producers are an unforgiving lot. There has also never been a time when there has been more competition at this level - the Cion being priced much higher than the BM4K really needs to add to what it does for people to take it seriously. I really, really hope they crack things but I fear that may only happen with "Cion 2"... I still await AJA's response to have another go with the camera for myself
 
I think we completely agree, just Ive seen some nice shots on the Coin in a very controlled situation.

Of course some DPs do work like it is 2005, or maybe 1985 so it could be great for them.

THe more people f-ck my stuff up in post the more I feel inclined to do that baked thing.

My heart, however, rests with broad DR capture and silky rolloff and creating a look in post - the FS7 is close to that and my Nikon D3 stills cam has it nailed.. as I guess does the F65 :)

Interestingly the Nikon D3 chip is probably made by Sony

S
 
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