Agonizing over dvx100B or Canon A1

sharky

sharky

Active member
I will be shooting a documentary in Peru in a few months. I already own a DVX100B, however many festivals now prefer 16:9 HD (hdv) format. So I am agonizing over sticking with my DVX (I also plan to shoot in 16:9 or at least ending up in that format) or taking the plunge and getting the canon A1. Light will also be a serious consideration, i.e., I'll be shooting with natural light, frequently in low-light situations. Any suggestions/opinions?

thanks,

Sharky

p.s. I have no interest in the anamorphic adaptor, I don't feel like I can truly run and gun with that!
 
Supposedly, there is a rebate coming for the A1 soon. In case you go that route.
 
jmc said:
Supposedly, there is a rebate coming for the A1 soon. In case you go that route.
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There's a $250 right now.

That's a tough decision you've got on your hands. We need more info...

What's your budget for this? what is main subject matter? a lot of outdoor or indoor "low light"?

The DVX is still a great camera, and there have been some AMAZING docs shot on it recently (THIS one, for instance), so if it were me, I'd ask one question. Do I NEED to shoot this in HD?

Personally, if I had plenty of cash on my hands for a project like the one you [briefly] described, I'd probably upgrade. Just me...

-brown
 
I beg to Differ but Festivals DO NOT prefer HD or 16x9 who ever gave you that info is wrong. keep the DVX it only produced a Oscar Nominated Documentary this year
 
It is difficult to believe that Panasonic wont do something with the DVX.
This camera has been so successful , why would they let the market to Canon?
Who knows they (Pana) may surprise us at the Nab ?
Personnaly I would wait a month before buying the Canon.
 
Sirocco said:
It is difficult to believe that Panasonic wont do something with the DVX.
This camera has been so successful , why would they let the market to Canon?
Who knows they (Pana) may surprise us at the Nab ?
Personnaly I would wait a month before buying the Canon.
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Gotta agree with Sirocco. If the OP can afford to wait a month, it may be a good idea. Then again, I'm already shocked Panny hasn't come out with a successor to the DVX. I mean, can you imagine? All those DVX users who are jumping ship to Canon - so unnecessary! They'd love to replace their old Panny with the next model, I'm sure (most of them, anyway). It's like car brands. I like Toyota - to me the most important thing in a car is reliability - and even though many American cars are closing the quality gap with Toyota (not quite yet), faced with a choice between an American brand and Toyota, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that I'll go for a Toyo. Once you have customer loyalty, it's plain stupid to fritter it away. Panny didn't have to give away their DVX customers to Canon. Yet so far, they've done exactly that. And Canon looks to be gunning for the whole market - f.ex. the lower part of the market is going to be covered by their HV20. The HVX200 market looks safe, but why drop the other parts?

Panny needs to wake up, and soon... it may be already too late what with all the A1 rebates.
 
OldCorpse said:
Then again, I'm already shocked Panny hasn't come out with a successor to the DVX.
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They did--it was called the HVX200. :)

That said, it doesn't necessarily seem that the HVX was necessarily the successor that most DVX users wanted. :Drogar-Evil(DBG):

From what I've seen here, I don't know that Panasonic really knows what to do with regards to a DVX successor. It seems that they thought the "advantages" of DVC-PRO HD and P2 would justify the HVX's price tag, only to find that many users saw those advantages as disadvantages and were perfectly willing to "compromise" on a "lesser format" such as HDV on the XH-A1 given the lower price. (Not to mention that many don't see that HDV is a compromise or a lesser format.)

Honestly, has Panasonic as a corporate entity even had time to assess the impact of the XH-A1? And even if they have, do they have an option to come up with a "DVX100C" or even an "HVX100" that somehow splits the difference?
 
honestly,i feel my canon a1 is an hdv dvx with 16:9.i think if panasonic had at least given me native 16:9 chips like the xl2 alot of people probably would't had made the switch to the a1 .so abrubptly.since canon has made high quality filmaking accesible to a poor man like me i'm not only greatful but panasonic probably won't see another dime from me unless the do something drastic.oh and the images coming from my a1 and red rock combo stuns me.
 
Camcorders take a couple of years to develop. Do you think they could just spring a fully-formed DVX100C on the market as soon as they see an XHA1 arise? If they wanted to make a direct competitor it'd take 'em a couple of years (unless, of course, one is already underway).
 
Barry_Green said:
Do you think they could just spring a fully-formed DVX100C on the market as soon as they see an XHA1 arise? If they wanted to make a direct competitor it'd take 'em a couple of years (unless, of course, one is already underway).
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Yeah, but wouldn't panasonic have more knowledge about what their competitors are working on than the common "joe schmo" in the streets?

I'd think they'd hear all about the canon [A1] at it's beginning stages, and possibly put the effort into creating a similar camera (unless of course they just thought that it wouldn't be a big rival with the HVX). I'm just guessing here, but there's no way that these company's have no idea what the other big guys are working on, right?

What do you think, Barry? did they make a mistake by not having a similarly priced HD camcorder at (or around) the same time the A1 was released?

Was it an oversight, or were/are they just gearing their efforts into the HVX and going for "quality over quanity", and hoping the customers will agree? I mean, I'd LOVE an HVX, don't get me wrong, but it's just not in my budget right now, wheras the canon is a helluva lot closer.

-brown

just seems to me, and a LOT of people, that the canon IS a lot like "an hdv dvx with 16:9" *quoting ennfurno*

P.s.s. sorry, we're getting a little off topic...
 
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Captain Pierce said:
They did--it was called the HVX200. :)

That said, it doesn't necessarily seem that the HVX was necessarily the successor that most DVX users wanted. :Drogar-Evil(DBG):
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Sorry, the HVX200 is not really a followup to the DVX. It's in a different price class. It's like saying the 2009 model of a Toyota Camry is going to be a Lexus.

They need to hold onto all price bands in the market - if anything, the bands are moving lower, as is the case in all electronics and cameras in particular (look what happened to the prices in the digital still cameras market!).

It's a blunder, pure and simple. Maybe it takes 2 years to develop a camera, but fact is that most companies have more than one team working in parallel leapfrogging one another, so they can quickly put something on the market if need be, or keep milking a successful model and skip a release if there is no competition on the horizon. And the other poster is right - it's hard to keep secrets in this industry (look at RED!) as far as who is working on what... not every detail, but enough to know if it'll be a competitor to your product or not. Panny wiffed this one, pure and simple, IMHO.

That said, I'm still hoping they have been developing something all along, and just didn't have perfect timing. Hope they have something up their sleeve come NAB. Competition is always good for the consumer. Panny needs to step up to the plate. The A1 is a cool camera, but it has some obvious weaknesses, same as the Sony - and if Panny comes out with something in the same price range (or lower!) without the weaknesses, they can still get the market back from Canon and Sony.

Go Panasonic! :thumbup:
 
I think it was a mistake, sure. I've been nagging them for an "HVX100" for at least six or nine months now, maybe longer. The XHA1 customer is not an HVX customer, like I said in my article; two totally different customers are looking at those products. Panasonic needs an AVC-HD-based high-def DVX if they want to compete for the XHA1 customer. And that's a hole in their lineup right now.
 
But the colour sucks in the XHA1, compare to what you can get with a Pana shown in the review by barry: http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/xha1/
. (Yeah , so you can change that in post, but the trouble and time)

Yes the zoom factor too(20 against 10). but you can't zoom and focus at the same time with the XHA1, but you can with the DVX.
Changing SD to HD only cost $100 with softwares. The only factor i see is the 16:9.
is 16:9 really a factor for you? if so then get the the XHA1.
 
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DavidChia said:
But the colour sucks in the XHA1, compare to what you can get with a Pana shown in the review by barry: http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/xha1/
. (Yeah , so you can change that in post, but the trouble and time)
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Whoa, I'm going to have to stop you there. The stock color on the A1 is a little flat but the camera itself has the most extensive array of image control option in its class, even more than the HVX! Head over to the A1 section and check out some of the looks that were achieved in-camera and then come back and tell me that the color in the A1 "sucks."

Softwares aren't going to give you the extra resolution or the pixels that weren't there to begin with. Like you said, somethings can be changed in post, but it takes time.
 
newbie here...

Correct me please.
I do not own a DVX yet. Im considering the DVX line because it seems this is the "only" camera that gives "true" filmlike video. Whereas the Canon and others cant deliver the DVX "look" Canon is great for weddings, but not for amateur film entrepreneurs..............right?
 
While both camcorders feature extensive image control, the XHA1 has more controls to choose from. Individual control over R,G, and B Gain and matrices, as well as finer levels of adjustment, give the XHA1 more settings to “paint” the picture. With that said, I was never able to get the XHA1 to match the lush, rich picture that the HVX delivers. The XHA1 always looked a bit more electronic to me, with flatter “blah” colors – look at the Battleship photos, for example.
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I took a quote off from the review by Barry.

Yes we can all change the setting too. i could change my (EX) FX1 to look good too. but it takes time.So basically the colour really is flat in a XHA1. we have to fine tune it. and even after fine tuning it, there are only limitations?

So i take back the word "suck" and and replace it with "flat"
 
downsouth said:
newbie here...

Correct me please.
I do not own a DVX yet. Im considering the DVX line because it seems this is the "only" camera that gives "true" filmlike video. Whereas the Canon and others cant deliver the DVX "look" Canon is great for weddings, but not for amateur film entrepreneurs..............right?
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False, look at my reply below.
 
DavidChia said:
I took a quote off from the review by Barry.

Yes we can all change the setting too. i could change my (EX) FX1 to look good too. but it takes time.So basically the colour really is flat in a XHA1. we have to fine tune it. and even after fine tuning it, there are only limitations?

So i take back the word "suck" and and replace it with "flat"
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I think we all agree first of all, that the definition of "good" color rendition is somewhat subjective. I read the same review you did, and what I got out of it (and numerous people already noted) is that the stock A1 setting is somewhat neutral compared to the HVX. The review said nothing about how they compared after adjusting the settings in camera (and such a comparison would not have been possible in any case because there's no established benchmark on which is "better").

Second of all, the ability to fine tune an image in camera is an advantage, not a flaw. Very few people making narrative film actually turn the camera on and record with the stock setting. They experiment and tweaked to get the look that they want. The HVX's stock setting isn't right for every situation, and neither is the A1's. It's misleading to say that the A1 produces "flat" image in general because then you're not taking into account who's using it and what setting the camera is in.

This has been repeated so many times it's almost a cliche: it's not the camera, it's the operator. The film look isn't specific to any camera or company. There's plenty of HVX/DVX footage that look exactly like home video, and you can say the same for the A1.
 
Honest answer please!

Honest answer please!

If only two cameras existed on the planet, and the prices were equal, which would you choose for your business/hobby.......and why!

Panasonic DVX100B or Canon XH-A1

Jeff
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