AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

I can't believe the trouble that was gone to for that review considering there has been firmware updates since. It's not October yet, there will probably be firmware yet to come.
 
I have tested a lot of cameras over the years before they have become available to the public and yes minor changes to tend to occur before they ship, but lets be honest here, firmware changes don't dramatically change the base of a camera. I have never tested a pre-production camera that is getting close to shipping from any manufacturer that has dramatically changed once it started shipping. Firmware doesn't magically change everything. This review was meant for people who have pre-ordered the camera or are interested in purchasing it, so they can get a basic understanding of what features you get and what the camera can and can't do.
 
Matthew Allard ACS said:
I have tested a lot of cameras over the years before they have become available to the public and yes minor changes to tend to occur before they ship, but lets be honest here, firmware changes don't dramatically change the base of a camera. I have never tested a pre-production camera that is getting close to shipping from any manufacturer that has dramatically changed once it started shipping. Firmware doesn't magically change everything. This review was meant for people who have pre-ordered the camera or are interested in purchasing it, so they can get a basic understanding of what features you get and what the camera can and can't do.
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Thank you Matt. Very informative.

The one thing you did not address is the way the codec encoded facial images, people are reporting plastic looks and grey spots. What is your experience?
 
hgf4 said:
The final part of the News Shooter review is up and I think it's a pretty positive conclusion. http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/09/20/panasonic-dvx-200-review-part-6-extra-features-and-conclusion/
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I really see very few cons listed so don't get the "As long as you understand the camera’s strengths and limitations" What are hardware limitations are there compared to GH4 with a 14 to 140 lens? Seems this camera feature wise is worlds ahead.
Surprised no one has done any side by side video comparison with the GH4.
 
Matt's review has been just about the most comprehensive, relevant and valuable review of a new camera I think I've ever encountered - and I've seen a hell of a lot... So, thanks Matt, great work!

The problem I face, and I think many others do as well, is that there are so many overlapping products that it is currently extremely frustrating to make a purchase decision. I've been using a PMW-200 for HD broadcast, doc and corporate work, as well as a couple of BMPCCs and a couple of GH4's... I'm trying to decide the best option for me now... I'm in Australia, so I'll give approximate prices in AUD for comparison...

The new Sony FS5 could almost be the camera many of us wanted to see Panasonic produce - but it's looking like being $10,000 for the body alone down under... The DVX200 will be around $6500... There is no lens for the FS5 that comes close to the zoom range of the DVX200 lens, and you'll need a stabilised lens if you want any help in that department - the Sony 28-135 f4 is a good budget pro lens, but on the Super 35 FS5, it won't have a meaningful wide end... The FS5 has 10bit 422 HD for HD broadcast work, the Panasonic doesn't. The Sony A7s and the 28-135 could be a nice combination (at around $7K), especially for available light shooting, but again, no 422 options internally, and maybe some horrendous overheating issues... A camera that's looking pretty intriguing to me is the URSA MINI 4.6K - its Prores recording options and great colour science (fingers crossed) could represent amazing value since (set up for on the shoulder work) it will be around the $10K mark in AUD... But... No internal ND filtration, stabilisation needed to be supplied by the lens, some whacky control placement, and it's a bit heavier and unwieldy perhaps in the field (although, not massively so by any means)... Based on Matt's findings the Panasonic gives pretty decent results, but low light and colour science and highlight handling aren't stellar (the release version just isn't going to be that different)...

Should I just keep my PMW200 for any HD broadcast work that comes up... Or should I sell now, and get a couple of thousand for the next investment?

People keep saying, correctly, that there is no one product that does it all. But with modern cars, for example, there are many options that offer a hell of a lot... At $10,000 for the body alone, why couldn't the FS5 have had the A7s image stabilised sensor? Or if not that, then internal 8bit 422 4K? BMD does offer great value with the URSA MINI, but really, no ND filter? And how about a decent set of controls on the body exterior - surely they've seen the dozens of pro cameras in the market for the last 20 years... The reality is, we need a DVX200 in certain circumstances, and FS5 in others, an A7s in others, and an URSA MINI 4.6K in yet more - but I for one can't afford them all. They're all good in their way, and they all seem to lack significantly in certain ways...

That's where I'm at, at the moment...
 
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philiplipetz said:
Thank you Matt. Very informative.

The one thing you did not address is the way the codec encoded facial images, people are reporting plastic looks and grey spots. What is your experience?
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You beat me to it. I would like to know the same, if Matthew is monitoring this thread.
 
Still no interest in a fixed lens camera personally, but that feature where you can offload footage by plugging a usb3 drive directly into the camera needs to be standard issue on every damn camera from now on. Good stuff Panasonic...
 
Everything about this camera is super exciting for me, the one fly in the ointment is the lens aperture ramping up so quickly.

I recently shot a doco series on the BMCC with the mettabones speed booster and using a 2.8 zoom most of the time. Mainly shot on iso 400 or 800 & I found I regularly was wanting a bit more light with out the opportunity to bring in a light even at 2.8. A camera like the DVX200 would have been a much nicer to use for many reasons but that lens is what turns me off a fair bit. I look forward to trying one out though. The BMCC can be pushed up a bunch in post and look totally acceptable but the GH4 I find is far from pleasing if you do the same, so figure the DVX200 will be more like that. If that lens just had more range at 2.8 Id be lining up to pick one up.
 
NRT, if you're still making money with what you've got and your clients are okay with the footage, why not wait awhile longer. Not that long till NAB.
 
hgf4 said:
NRT, if you're still making money with what you've got and your clients are okay with the footage, why not wait awhile longer. Not that long till NAB.
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hgf4 - a good suggestion - hopefully the GH5 will be announced and available by that time - the only trouble with NAB these days is that products are announced there, people get excited and hopeful, then we get to mid-September, and the things we got excited about still haven't turned up (DVX200 and URSA MINI, being two from this year). That is also an issue. Sony have done something similar in that the FS5 probably won't turn up (in Australia, at least) until maybe late December or even January... Hopefully the URSA MINI 4.6K will be out before then to get a good look at...
 
To be honest it didn't produce the best skin tones I have seen that is for sure and it definitely does seem to have a colour cast. I don't personally own a GH4, but the people I have shown the DVX 200 too have said that the skin colours look similar to what they get on a GH4. Internal recording in 4.2.0 8bit is always going to be a problem if you don't get middle get and your exposure almost spot on. I really wish Panasonic had of made it at least 4.2.2 8bit.
 
Thanks for responding. I have seen some very nice stuff from the GH4 (on here, never used one), so maybe it's a different issue? Also older cams with that same bit depth (or whatever you call the 4:2:0 stat) don't exhibit this issue. I use the EX1 a lot and it looks quite nice to me. Even if it's not amazing, it still doesn't exhibit the weird issue I've seen from the footage with this cam.
 
Fahnon said:
but that feature where you can offload footage by plugging a usb3 drive directly into the camera needs to be standard issue on every damn camera from now on. Good stuff Panasonic...
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The HC-X1000 has it. It only does 1gb a minute copy to my usb3, 1TB WD.
If Panasonic can make it better on the DVX200, can they make it faster on the X1000 with firmware update? At the moment it's pointless for me, why even bother if it's going to be that slow! :(
I'm not exactly sure, but shouldn't that be at least half as fast again (if not twice)?
 
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hgf4 said:
The final part of the News Shooter review is up and I think it's a pretty positive conclusion. http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/09/20/panasonic-dvx-200-review-part-6-extra-features-and-conclusion/
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A few observations on his article:

1) Yes the drives work the way he said. One thing I found in addition is that the USB Host port, while not usable during live recording, does still supply bus power during live recording. I haven't found a valid use for it (other than, say, using the camera to charge my phone while recording...) but it's possible that some enterprising 3rd party manufacturer will find some usefulness for some accessory that uses USB bus power, and the power port is just sitting there waiting to be used...

2) Regarding stills -- it works as he said, but he didn't mention that you can also take a still of recorded footage. While you're playing back footage, you can press the same CAPTURE button to record a still frame of whatever's currently playing.

3) Regarding flash band compensation -- he said it only works in interlace, not progressive. That's not true with today's camera. I don't know if it was limited that way on the version .30 camera he had to test with or not, but on the production camera flash band compensation works at any 50/60 frame rate (so, 720/60p, 1080/60i, 1080/60p, UHD 60p, and all of those in 50i/50p too). It doesn't work in slow frame rates (24/25/30).

Other than those things, I do agree with his conclusions. He did a ton of work evaluating this camera, and it is much appreciated. I think if he were to have done so with a final version with the various improvements I've mentioned, his conclusions may even be more positive.
 
Phil vG said:
I can't believe the trouble that was gone to for that review considering there has been firmware updates since. It's not October yet, there will probably be firmware yet to come.
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The advances in the firmware have been substantial. His was version 0.30, IIRC, and we're currently on 1.09. The VLOG-L profile he used has been replaced with one that records notably more color saturation, so less pushing in post is necessary, and the standard picture profile delivers much more accurate color under low light conditions than the prerelease camera did, and there are numerous bug fixes and small features added.
 
Barry_Green said:
One thing I found in addition is that the USB Host port, while not usable during live recording, does still supply bus power during live recording. I haven't found a valid use for it ..........
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I find exactly that highly useful on my camera for powering the radio mic receiver. Turn on the camera and the receiver switches on automatically - no more worries about one more thing to turn on in a hurry, and (especially) no more worries about flat batteries in the receiver. Very useful feature.
 
Phil vG said:
The HC-X1000 has it. It only does 1gb a minute copy to my usb3, 1TB WD. If Panasonic can make it better on the DVX200, can they make it faster on the X1000 with firmware update?
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That would depend on the type of USB, although yours seems to be underperforming even the outdated type. (there may be some correlation, however, even it is slow per given format)
 
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