AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

philiplipetz said:
Then why did Panasonic put this footage on their website? That is either a great blunder or indicating they will stand behind the demonstrated quality.
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I cannot answer as to why Panasonic does what they do. I'm sure they intend it to represent the quality that they will support, although I do have to say the YouTube version did them no favors in the aerial motorcycle scene; it definitely looks somewhat better in the Vimeo version. But in general, the motorcycle shop, the wedding stuff, I'm sure that they are proud of it and stand behind it.

How can we take delivery of our preorders if any complaint about quality is met with "tomorrow it will be right" and we are told not to believe anything we see? Seriously I really appreciate Barry's comments but they are starting to go against what Panasonic is releasing, and releasing in a few weeks.
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I'm not saying "tomorrow it will be right", I'm only saying "I know of certain issues that existed in the camera they used. It is POSSIBLE that those issues will be resolved soon." As a matter of illustration, they just released a firmware update a few days ago that notably increases the color saturation recorded in VLOG. And they've just now released a firmware update that may resolve the last few issues I've been experiencing.

Now, that doesn't mean that the camera will magically start performing exactly the way you (or any particular individual) wants it to. It only means that the camera will finally be performing to its original intended specification. You will have to determine whether that performance suits your needs.

So -- yes, they've released footage from a camera whose color science was not as finished as today's version. I cannot explain the decision-making process, as I'm not priviliged to those conversations. All I can say is that I'm the guy writing the book on what this camera does and doesn't do, and I'm telling you that the footage you have heretofore seen has been made with cameras that had incomplete firmware and incomplete imaging systems.

we have to work with what we are given, not pray that things will change.
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That is exactly correct. My point has been -- what you have seen is not what you will be given. Starting from today, hopefully, new footage will be representative of what the final camera will be able to deliver.

That said, the footage for "A Day Of Life" was shot in VLOG, which generally avoids most of the internal processing of the camera, and is therefore more likely to be more accurate to final footage quality than anything you've seen that was shot in any other mode. However, even then, as I said, VLOG-L's color rendition has changed recently, so even then it is not absolutely 100% representative of what the final cameras will do.

I accept Barry's statement that V Log has changed, but that does not change V Logs response to low light.
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The only change I know of in VLOG has been in color saturation. VLOG has always been noisier than other modes of shooting, since much of the camera's internal processing is bypassed. One should expect to do their own noise-reduction pass in post when using VLOG, just like you have to with a raw camera.
 
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Danilo Del Tufo said:
I think it's not possible achieve the same image quality because the sensor is different, and color science of Sony is already finished I believe. I dunno if Barry or other that have prerelease camera can confirm that, it would be nice if Barry say something about "Free Spirit" video, and if he liked.
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Frankly, I don't see anything in the Free Spirit video that a DVX200 couldn't have done just fine, although of course not exactly the same. The FS5 uses, I believe, the same sensor as in the FS7, which means it should be capable of a couple of stops more dynamic rang than the DVX200; that may come into play in some of the exterior shots. And the FS5 can use an interchangeable prime lens which means it would be capable of shallower DOF than the DVX200 can.

As for the slow motion, it's possible the Sony would hold an edge there, depending on how much res its overcranking holds; the DVX200 loses some resolution between 62-96 fps and a little more for 100 & 120 fps. On the other hand, the DVX200 can do UHD at 60P, the Sony can't, so if you want slow motion up to 60 fps in your 24p project, the DVX can do it in UHD mode, so it really depends on how slow you need it to go.

The real question is -- what type of lens will you be using on the FS5? Can it do the type of jobs that you need done? The DVX200 is aimed (or, well, should be thought of, IMO) not as primarily a cinema camera with a fixed lens. Instead, it should be thought of as a handheld all-in-one camera (like an AC160 or HPX250) that happens to have a huge sensor. I think the DVX would excel in jobs that the original DVX100 did so well -- sports, reality TV, EPK, corporates, industrials, and yes, weddings. If your goal is strictly cinema, there are other cameras that will do that job better. The DVX is the camera for all those jobs that the DSLR just plain sucks at, and the big cinema camera with the DSLR lens is not suited well for. The DVX excels in that environment, IMO. And, while it's at it, it can be pressed into service to do something like "Free Spirit" or "A Day Of Life" too. The original marketing slogan for the DVX100 was "Make a living. Flip a switch. Make a movie." In my opinion, that's who the DVX200 is aimed at -- a low-cost, all-in-one, versatile camera that can handle almost any type of job. If someone can afford more camera, and doesn't need that versatility, then hey -- there are other choices out there that may suit them better. The DVX isn't and can't be "the one camera to rule them all" -- nothing can be. But it is one camera that can be used to do just about all jobs (even if there are certain cameras that could do certain of those jobs better than it).
 
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Was needing help on transcoding. I will be using the Dvx200 shooting multiple levels of production. I will shoot some in 4k and give footage to client for editing, then some I will be shooting in 4K and transcoding it to ProRes so I can edit it in FCP 7. My question is what 3rd party software can I transcode the 4k footage to ProRes.

Thanks
john
 
Hi there !

Just 3 questions for those who have ever approached the DVX200.

1) What about build quality ?
Robust like EX1R, Good compromise like HPX250 or plastiky like HC-X1000 ?

2) What about viewfinder ?
Wide like XF300, average like PXW-X70 or small like AF101 ?

3) What about manual zooming ?
Fully disengageable like EX1R, little inertia like XF300 or slow as hell like PZ 28-135 mm ?

Best regards.
 
Yeah it should still be at least 3 years since Panasonic is now offering their consumer products 3 years as well. With that said, it's just the camera body itself that would get a warranty for 3 years. The accessories such as the included battery for example will only come with a 10 day warranty which really stinks.
 
Barry_Green said:
The DVX isn't and can't be "the one camera to rule them all" -- nothing can be.
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put a $30.000 canon 17-120 on a fs5 body with the codec/recording modes of the fs7 - for me, that would come really close to the "camera to rule them all". or make the dvx200 lens exchangeable and put it on a smaller/lighter body and add 4:2:2 hd. maybe this would be a little more expensive. but then, it would rule it all, though. :grin:
 
unami said:
put a $30.000 canon 17-120 on a fs5 body with the codec/recording modes of the fs7 - for me, that would come really close to the "camera to rule them all". or make the dvx200 lens exchangeable and put it on a smaller/lighter body and add 4:2:2 hd. maybe this would be a little more expensive. but then, it would rule it all, though. :grin:
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Actually, something like this is doable today but the technology would have to be pulled from different vendors. This hypothetical device would have a 1" BSI "clear pixel" sensor in the 30-35 MPX range, capable of up to 6K video resolution, and also offering multiple crops and/or digital zooms. Codec on demand, like a car's engine. That's the easy part. Now, to lenses. Sony RX10 has an 8x optical zoom (24-200 35mm equivalent) in a $1,200 body, so presumably one could get the 13x for a few hundred dollars more. It'll be a different product from DVX200 but similarly looking and in the same price range ... and to be announced at the NAB'16. Or 17. Or 18.
 
How does the dvx200 compare in low light to the sony FS5 with the kit 18-105 f/4 lens?

also I seem to have forgotten what codecs does the dvx record?
 
The DVX200 is not great in low light, and not horrible. ISO3200 appears to be the limit before NR smears the image too much. The FS5 will blow it away in low light. But then it is at least 50% more expensive (depends on lens choice) and is not a versatile all in one with a 13x power zoom. The DVX200 records in XVAC-L and AVCHD.
 
philiplipetz said:
The DVX200 is not great in low light, and not horrible. ISO3200 appears to be the limit before NR smears the image too much. The FS5 will blow it away in low light. But then it is at least 50% more expensive (depends on lens choice) and is not a versatile all in one with a 13x power zoom. The DVX200 records in XVAC-L and AVCHD.
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This is my concern too. I currently have the FDR-AX1 which is not great in low light ( much like the HC-X1000 ) so am looking for an improvement. I have a fear it may not be that much better because of the lens range. A lot of the time in the theatre the AX1 is sitting at 24db or more, it is not that noisy but I think at these gain settings it does lose resolution, the whole point of using it !!! As a video only guy ISO does not mean as much to me as gain settings and I do understand that an ISO or 0 db setting says nothing about the noise in the image which is what really matters. So not sure of the base ISO of the DVX200 but does 3200 equate to about 15db of gain ? My NX5U starts to become really noisy at 12db but the NX30U, AX100 will happily go to 24db to 27db clean.

I do not think Panasonic use the SOny XAVC-L, I assume you mean Panasonic's h264 LongGOP ?
 
i believe +6db of gain= doubling ISO = +one stop of sensitivity. so going from 800 to 1600 iso is like adding 6db of gain. 1600 to 3200 would be like adding another 6. yes? no?
 
Looking at the noise review on NewsShooter.com, the noise didn't seem that bad... none of the "blue crawly" type stuff. But that said... yeah... 4/3 with an f/3-f/4-ish lens vs S35 with a constant f/4 lens, I would think the S35 is going to win every time. It just depends on if how much it wins is worth less than half the range and nearly twice the price.
 
philiplipetz said:
The DVX200 is not great in low light, and not horrible. ISO3200 appears to be the limit before NR smears the image too much. The FS5 will blow it away in low light. But then it is at least 50% more expensive (depends on lens choice) and is not a versatile all in one with a 13x power zoom. The DVX200 records in XVAC-L and AVCHD.
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Philip-
ALL the cameras out there are prototypes, no production run cameras and very few have been getting updates other than Barry's and our tech rep out here Bernie.....as far as we could see. 1600 was clean, 3200 not so much (in 4K) and they were cleaner in 1080. I think we all just have to wait and be patient until the production line cameras come out which I'm sure will have a lot of these issues addressed.
Also, we are getting many a query from the reality shows about wanting to see the camera asap WHEN the production run cameras are out.

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
Josh Bass said:
i believe +6db of gain= doubling ISO = +one stop of sensitivity. so going from 800 to 1600 iso is like adding 6db of gain. 1600 to 3200 would be like adding another 6. yes? no?
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Yes that I understand but what is the base ISO for the DVX200, is it about 500 ? Hence my guess at about 15db
 
Ron Evans said:
Yes that I understand but what is the base ISO for the DVX200, is it about 500 ? Hence my guess at about 15db
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Protoypes reported to be about 500 ISO base. There seems to a stated desire to raise that to 800 in production model. So it will not change drastically but better NR may be implemented.
 
i wonder at this point if when the production cameras come out they will be far and away better quality than what we've seen so far and we'll all feel like idiots or all the reviews will confirm what everyone's already been saying
 
Base ISO for DVX200 around 500? Isn't that about the base ISO for the HMC 150 (without gain)? If so, that isn't too bad. The 150 is usable in low light.

Yeah that integrated 13X zoom of the DVX would be nice compared to the much smaller zooms of the interchangeable lens cameras, especially if it can start and stop zooms smoothly and hold focus during. Just depends on what type work you are doing as to which checks more off the list of needs
 
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