AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

For the shooting I do with Camcorder style cameras, zoom is essential. While a 20X's zoom would be nice it's not essential for most of the things I do with Camcorders. To me the biggest hindrance that I perceive with the DVX200 is with the aperture range at the long end of the focal range.

It seems as if at this point in time we have reached a bit of a road block for Prosumer 4K Camcorders with decent zoom capabilities.

My initial hope for the DVX200 was that with it's larger sensor it would have solved the issues that the current 4K 60P prosumer camcorder units have with working in low light situations. But alas the larger sensor brings it's own challenges as the physics of building a lens with much wider apertures on a M4/3 sensor, I am guessing, would have driven the price up by about another $3000-$4000 dollars. With that being said, I think it might be worth it for Panasonic to consider building a camera with the same body and functionality, but with a larger aperture lens.

The cost of good fast glass is not going to go down any time soon so I believe the only real hope for fixing these low light challenges is with smaller sensor technology so that raising ISO's or DB's doesn't really become an issue in terms of creating too much noise and or losing image detail. Of course that sort of technology won't likely make it's way to the prosumer market in the very near future (1 year) but as sensor technology improves so will the costs and then prosumer versions can become a reality.

Until then it would seem that we are kind of stuck in no mans land when it comes to decent low light 4K camcorder performers with good zoom lens performance in the prosumer price range.
 
Barry mentions the DVX200 inner workings isn't even close to the final version that'll end up in users hands. Judging by the current footage I think we all have to agree that the DVX200 shows a lot of things not so good. If the final shipping camera will be perfect and all the IQ shortcomings will dissappear that's great!

The thing is looking back at the AF100 and the footage that were released priot to shipping compared to how the actual shipping AF100 footage was the difference were in fact zero. So question is if the core IQ of a camera can change a lot once the basic design concept is done?

The thing that bugs me is that the DVX200 and what has been shown so far is serious lacking in several areas when it comes to IQ and all I'm told is that - Don't worry the shipping camera will be better!

Maybe my standards are to high and I'm wrong expecting to much from a camera like the DVX200? But I own a Panasonic LX100 and I find video quality to be excellent from that camera so I'm no Panasonic hater per se. I just can't see the same IQ quality from the DVX200 as the LX100 has.

Just as many other shooters I would love an all in one solution camera with a large sensor and long range lens with great IQ but so far I just can't see the DVX200 being that camera.

In the end I hope I'm wrong and that the final DVX200 shows great IQ and that it's easy get to that great IQ but so far it doesn't look to good IMHO.
 
barry or noel,

I'm curious how the servo zoom feels as to ease into and ease out when starting. is it possible to start a zoom and not notice it slightly jolt into action? my old EX1 was decent at this where my HMC150 was not as finessed when starting or stopping a zoom. of course i expect that the PP cameras you each have may also not be final as to the servo feel but still is there any nuances you both might share?

thanks
david
 
I just can't see the same IQ quality from the DVX200 as the LX100 has.

If Panasonic can not beat the LX100 in image quality with the DVX200 they need to fold up their tent! I think you are not giving the DVX200 a fair shake. Until you can put the camera next to the LX100, setup the camera properly with its pro menu options and shoot a side by side you are just guessing. I like the look of the LX100 and would own one if they did not put the stupid 30min recording restriction on it. But I think the DVX200 will have a great image, especially with all of the menu controls.
 
I'm genuinely stunned that Panasonic would allow such sub-par footage to be distributed. Also a little surprised that a moderator would describe Osslund as "crapping" in this forum. He's simply calling out Panasonic's crap, no? If I was in the market for this camera I'd be extremely hesitant to pull the trigger...and even extensive testing of the final version may not remove the feeling that something ugly may show itself at the worst moment.
 
After having read every single post in this entire thread and having viewed all the videos, there's one thing I can say with absolute certainty. There's no way in hell I'm buying a pre-production version of this camera. No way. Sorry.

And as long as I'm being brutally honest...I have a confession to make...have a guilty pleasure...I own an HC-X1000. And am actually very pleased with it. It's a great little camera once you learn how to properly use it. There - I've said it. It takes an investment of some time to get the best results from a new camera. And whether one is satisfied or not depends a lot upon how realistic one's expectations were when the camera was purchased.

Am going to make a bold prediction - even after production versions of the DVX-200 are into consumer hands, there will initially be lots of sub-par footage posted from those anxious to be among the first with "real" DVX-200 footage - which will be endlessly criticized and dissected on forums as examples of what the camera is not capable of. Haha...bold prediction? No, entirely predictable. And the current nay-sayers will have plenty of fodder to say, "I told you so."

And one last thing I can say with very high confidence; Barry Green will tell it like it is.
 
Barry mentions the DVX200 inner workings isn't even close to the final version that'll end up in users hands. Judging by the current footage I think we all have to agree that the DVX200 shows a lot of things not so good. If the final shipping camera will be perfect and all the IQ shortcomings will dissappear that's great!

The thing is looking back at the AF100 and the footage that were released priot to shipping compared to how the actual shipping AF100 footage was the difference were in fact zero. So question is if the core IQ of a camera can change a lot once the basic design concept is done?

The thing that bugs me is that the DVX200 and what has been shown so far is serious lacking in several areas when it comes to IQ and all I'm told is that - Don't worry the shipping camera will be better!

Maybe my standards are to high and I'm wrong expecting to much from a camera like the DVX200? But I own a Panasonic LX100 and I find video quality to be excellent from that camera so I'm no Panasonic hater per se. I just can't see the same IQ quality from the DVX200 as the LX100 has.

It is not entirely out of question for the LX100 to make better images than the DVX200. The GH2 made vastly better images than the AF100 even unhacked. The hacked GH2 AVCHD looked better than AF100 422 recorded to external recorders in prores. Most AF100 owners at the time wouldn't accept it. Probably because it made no sense that the camera costing less than 1/5 would make the better images. But I owned both and after a while I just bought a second GH2 and used the AF100 less and less till I sold all my M4/3 stuff.

But you have a few good points. I also find it hard to believe the image from the final camera will be a full change from what is now. The problem is that we just don't know if we are seeing the best the camera can do now. All these people posting footage from the DVX200 seem to be totally amateurs. It's hard to say and I'm reserving judgement till when Barry posts his own footage from the released camera. If I dislike what Barry shows then I will be convinced the camera is not for me.

Just as many other shooters I would love an all in one solution camera with a large sensor and long range lens with great IQ but so far I just can't see the DVX200 being that camera.

I think you have unrealistic expectations though. All that from a $4200 camera just won't happen. There will always be catches. I have a FS7 which costs much more without a lens. It has a good share of catches and pisses me off on a daily basis. But I know it's not a F55 or F5 and costs much less. So I live with it.
 
I have the DVX 200 with me right now and will have it till the end of next week. I am doing a ton of tests for Newsshooter.com and I am in constant contact with the guys here in Japan from Panasonic who designed the camera. If there is anything specific that anyone wants me to test I will do my best to get it done. The version I have is very, very close to the production version of the camera. All the functionality and features are working on the camera I have.
 
Glad to hear you're testing it Matt- the big question from me is how long does it hold fast aperture through the zoom range? If it drops off to f4 as soon as you zoom in then that would be a real disappointment, but if it holds 2.8 to around 100mm then it's a different story...
 
Glad to hear you're testing it Matt- the big question from me is how long does it hold fast aperture through the zoom range? If it drops off to f4 as soon as you zoom in then that would be a real disappointment, but if it holds 2.8 to around 100mm then it's a different story...

This is a really good question. I second that. I would love to see the zoom performance throughout all aperture and seeing how the Auto Intelligent Focus works on MFT. Also any chance of a .66x or .77x wide angle converter lens on a nice open landscape OR a tele adapter. So curious about the 4K resolution and detail from third party addons. Please! 4K documentaries are becoming a big demand in my country! =) Lens performance is what I'm really after. Thanks.
 
Hey Matt,

Thanks for the offer - what you've written in Newsshooter.com so far has been very valuable to me, so I'm really looking forward to your follow-up pieces. Apart from what you've mentioned that you will be covering, I'd like to know how effective the stabilisation in 4K is for hand-holding, since it seems the vaunted 5-axis stabilisation is only for HD. I'd really love to see a side by side comparison between the 200 and your Sony A7s/A7R II (if you have one) and is it the F55 you have? The comparison would mainly be to answer the question of how well skin tones are handled by the 200 compared to your other cams.

Cheers, Nigel
 
Matt, it would be great if you could test how the camera deal with highlights. This is the problem with most cameras specially Panasonic ones. Thanks.
 
Face tones for people of different races (especially Caucasian pink skinned and black) in V Log and baked in gammas. Noise as ISO increases. Does the built in chromatic aberration correction make the image brittle at edges of frame. Stretch a V Log image in post to see how well the 8 bit codec holds up. Wind blowing through dsstant leaves during a pan to test codec.
 
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Hello Matt. I have a very clear idear about the test conditions I would be interested in:

Extreme run and gun. Exactly: set the lens to constant f/4 as this will make it possible to shoot with a constant aperture for much of the zoom range. Show examples of the possible DOF in different conditions.

Shoot in low light conditions at ISO 6400 as in many occasions you will need such an ISO to compensate for the aperture of f/4.

Shoot handheld in HD while walking: how good will the 5-axis stabilization be?

Do an AF stress test.

Shoot HD in V-log and try different grades. What look can you achieve?

If the camera passes all this, I'm in.
 
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