AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

Yes, venting does make people feel better. Just like when you have a crappy day at work and have a beer and vent about your boss. It doesn't fix it, but it does make you feel better.

"forum'ers" are merely a representation of a demographic. Panasonic is made up of marketing and advertising and consumer research divisions as well - not just sales and engineering. It is a companies responsibility to figure out what their customers want, and companies vigorously pursue this. I have been approached by Panasonic as they scour vimeo to find footage shot on their cameras to promote on their websites because they wanted to showcase it. I have participated in market research groups from various companies paying hundreds of dollars just to get consumer opinions. You can bet very well they read forums and blogs and comments listen to customers at booths, etc. Jan used to hunt these forums and even ask threads "what do you want to see in AF100" etc. There have been no shortage of people saying that they want - a midrange $5-$8k interchangeable offering from Panasonic. M4/3 makes sense, an S35 would have been cool too - but for years they have delivered neither. And yes, I have talked to Panasonic reps directly and many others have as well. Forums is the 2015 version of where MANY companies go for feedback - it's total, brutal honest conversations and arguing. Companies would have paid thousands for this sort of market research only 20 years ago.


Brands should take it as a compliment when their users get pissed. It means their users are invested and care about their products. I believe Panny gave us what their interpretation of what people are asking for - a GH4 suited for more run and gun work. My take is, they made the assumption that run and gun users are only using interchangeable lenses because they had to, and overlooked the possibility that perhaps they have grown to WANT to. From observing their marketing on this, it does seem they were trying to appeal to the group of people asking for an AF200/run'n'gun styled GH4. If this is true, they missed the boat for many people. No doubt it will hit it for some.

Maybe their business guys know best, and business is business. But as Panny and other companies show us every year, the business guys don't always know best. If they did, there would never be flops would there be? I hope the DVX200 succeeds for the people who dig it, but either way, I'm butt hurt that my favorite camera company didn't produce for the 4th year in a row what many of us want.
 
The additional hurt at this point, is that I had pretty much resigned myself to this fact a year ago and was mentally gearing up for an FS7 when I started hearing rumors about another Panasonic AF camera again. So kinda got my hopes up all over again. That's no one's fault... just trying to offer an explanation for some of the vitriol post-Panasonic NAB announcement. Those of us in this boat are frustrated that Panasonic doesn't see the market we represent as viable enough to create a new camera. At the end of the day they're running their business as they best see fit, and we will simply have to choose another product.

This
 
How do they know you're "getting pissed," if you're not talking to them?

You aren't expressing anything to them by posting this stuff here.
 
Great hear from you Barry. Can you find out more info on the codecs and if there is any hope of 10bit 4:2:2 in HD? Thanks.

Looks like HD is AVCHD only, 4k has a .mov wrapper and since it is on a SD card its probably 4:2:0 (in other words these appear to be most of the codecs in the Gh4).

The 3g-sdi is for HD monitoring only and the HDMI out is 10 bit 4:2:2 - looks like you need an external recorder if you want 10 bit 4:2:2.

These answers are from a Pansonic rep in this video: [video]http://bcove.me/6n9c9q24[/video]
 
How do they know you're "getting pissed," if you're not talking to them?

You aren't expressing anything to them by posting this stuff here.

If Panasonic doesn't know enough by now to have a representative of some sort occasionally visit here to view feedback on their offerings, then they are quite ignorant. When I first looked for tests and info about the DVX100, this site came up. If you look for info about the HMC150, HVX200, GH2, 3 or 4, AF100... this site comes up.

For Panasonic to not be aware of DVXUSER would be ridiculous IMO. That being said, many of us have created threads about what we would look for in a potential AF200, and one member passed the results along to Panasonic. I'm not personally bothered by the DVX200 (other than the possible exclusion of 4:2:2 HD) I like the idea of an all in one solution. I was worried yesterday when the Panasonic rep hinted at something as "disruptive as the DVX" that if they didn't really bring the A game, people would be let down. It's just too bold a statement for what was delivered. The camera itself looks pretty awesome for what it is.
 
Jan used to read this site and report our concerns, and get a response. Is there no one to do this now?

Jan's gone, and that was more about what Jan personally did than company policy.

But Pat Lamb puts her e-mail address on every press release, so this stuff would do much more good in an e-mail to her than it will as message board posts.
 
Great hear from you Barry. Can you find out more info on the codecs and if there is any hope of 10bit 4:2:2 in HD? Thanks.
It is April; the camera doesn't ship until October. Some things are locked in, some aren't and won't be for months.

Someone else was asking for footage. There won't be footage until probably August at the earliest! I know the Internet has sped up communication and everyone wants everything now now now, but stuff takes time. You cannot get a baby in one month just by throwing nine women at the problem...

On codecs - nobody is saying anything. My GUESS is that we are looking at the same codec engine as the HC-X1000 uses, which would mean 4K and 1080p recorded in Quicktime or MP4 wrappers at up to 150mb/sec onto UHS-3 SDXC cards. So, commodity media at decent bandwidths and NO proprietary formats! As for AVCHD, I am sure it will be an option, just like it is in the x1000, but you certainly wouldn't have to use it. I would bet money that there will be high-bandwidth 1080p options (50 & 100 mbps).

Probably 8-bit 4:2:0, as that is what the X1000 does. However, things could be different; this DVX will do 1080/120P, and the X1000 won't. So -- maybe slightly different, maybe way different, we don't know yet.

You could always get 10-bit 4:4:4 1080P from it, just record in 4K and downconvert in post.
 
How do they know you're "getting pissed," if you're not talking to them? You aren't expressing anything to them by posting this stuff here.

...Is there an actual Panasonic conduit where we can express our feedback ?

I think the DVX200 is going to be a big hit, especially because it will be the first of it's kind on the market.

The GH4 is another fantastic ground breaking camera, and I would be happy to kick in another $200 to upgrade the firmware for the V-log feature.

But if I'm thinking of spending a few thousand more on new Micro 4/3 lenses, I need to know that in the long run that there will be a cine style body that will make use of this investment. Otherwise I am going to be forced to switch to Super35 and leave Micro 4/3 behind.

The new Micro 4/3 JVC camera looks like a good start, but I'm not sure if the sensor can produce a cine image with good color and at least 12 stops of dynamic range. I would have more faith if this was a new Panasonic cine style Micro 4/3 camera, and would be happy to pay more for Panasonic quality.
 
So I just landed a long-term project for the fall/winter of this year and into next where the specs of this camera might well make sense...

What is the best seasoning for one's own words?
 
The thought of traveling with just this new DVX, a tripod, a couple of batterys, a few 64 gig cards set to dual record, and a gh4 with one fast lens for that look brings a single tear to my eye. whew, i would still have room for a change of clothes in my bag and could skip the checked luggage all together.

i could start being a producer and less time as a pack mule.
 
Hey, I think we all have a right to like or dislike a product offering. After all, we are the ones it is aimed at, aren't we? This camera is probably made of balsa wood right now, so voicing some opinions *may* instigate a firmware change or something of the like. Though probably not...

For the record, I have stated many times that I wanted this type of camera. So I am happy they made it, just not happy that it falls short next to my PX270 in terms of acquisition. If they can make the PX270 without me asking them, why can't they make the DVX200 in the same way? I know the processing for 4k might be a heat issue, but what about 1080p or 720p? I do not think it is asking too much for 10bit 4:2:2. Maybe it is in there, but If they do not lead with it, then chances are slim.

You can like or dislike anything you want. I didn't say you couldn't. I only said that there may be better avenues down which to vent it, which may better result in getting what you want.

But I'm not sure you can actually conclude that the camera is aimed at "us". Looks like it's aimed at people who want a fixed-lens 4K camera in the sub-$5K range, or an entry-level 4K prosumer cam, which would be analogous to what the original DVX was. And there's a whole lot bigger of a world than just the indy filmmaker types who hang here. The DVX200 would be a great fit for all kinds of video purposes; "filmmaking" is a niche.

We at DVXuser may have been an enthusiastic Panasonic fan group, but we are by no means the entire world.
 
Just out of curiosity --

Those who wanted more, who wanted this, that, and the other thing --

How hard did you try to communicate all of this directly to Panasonic? What exactly did you do to make your wish list heard?

Fair questions, and deserve a proper reply. For starters, what about this whole thread http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...anager&p=1986511055&viewfull=1#post1986511055 ?

It starts off by Barry saying:
Barry Green said:
Hey folks, we have an interesting opportunity here in regards to Panasonic. We used to have Jan Crittenden Livingston, who was the product manager for the USA pro division, who was a frequent visitor and contributor to our site, and it is partly through Jan's efforts that we (the end users) had a voice in helping shape what would become some of Panasonic's biggest hits (such as the DVX100, HPX170, HMC150, and HVX200, among others).

Jan's retired, but things have changed a little at Panasonic as well. Or, should I say, they've changed a LOT. The Panasonic consumer factory has just produced the HC-X1000, .......Not to mention the success of the GH1, GH2, GH3, and GH4, all of which came from this same division (and even brought us the YAGH, which was their first attempt at crossing over to the pro market).

And, the product manager for Panasonic's consumer division is very interested in hearing from us about what we want to see them develop.

Realistic suggestions have the highest likelihood of actually being implemented.......
So I think everybody here may have a realistic expectation that Panasonic were directly interested in hearing feedback via this forum?

I actually think that what is being missed by virtually everybody here - in spite of what Barry makes clear in the above - is that you can't simply talk of "Panasonic" when talking about cameras. There seems a very clear split between the consumer and pro departments, and my own conclusions are that the consumer department are far more savvy (and, it seems, successful) than the pro. Even if Panasonic pro aren't reading anything here, it would seem Panasonic consumer may be. (Or at least getting a condensed version back?)

My own views in that thread are that any "AF200" is not going to come from the consumer division - but what MAY be realistic is a system based on the GH4/YAGH concept. The latter itself leaves a lot to be desired - but may be a pointer to the future. And it's eminently possible from Panasonic CONSUMER division.
It just seems like some are taking this as being personally slighted by Panasonic.
Well, I'm not, but isn't discussing new cameras one of the things these forums are for? I'm interested in putting thoughts forward, but if the manufacturers ignore them, then tough - they can't please everybody.

To be honest I'm surprised by the whole thought of intense brand loyalty to any make of camera for it's own sake, anyway. My current main camera is from Sony - but come the time to replace it the replacement may come from Sony - but if I think Canon, Panasonic (consumer or pro.....!), JVC or whoever have just what I need, then so be it. Brand loyalty may be a good thing for practical reasons like legacy accessories etc, but for it's own sake?

If Panasonic aren't making the camera anyone wants, then why not simply buy another brand?
 
So I just landed a long-term project for the fall/winter of this year and into next where the specs of this camera might well make sense...

What is the best seasoning for one's own words?


Here on DVXuser? Par for the course. Lots of folks saying crazy stuff.
I know, I know, throwing rocks from the porch of my glass house.
 
Unsure what to think with this camera.
I could see it useful for some live events.... I couldn't see myself using it for weddings..... and I'm shooting 41 weddings this year

I need to be able to get really wide sliding shots, a compact option to go on a glidecam, low-light (can't comment on how the dvx200 will perform obviously).... maybe I'm too 'set in my ways', heh... but I used to shoot on a DVX100 in college, and really don't think I'd consider a fixed-lens DVX200 for weddings. If I have hesitations doing the number of weddings I'm doing with a camera like that, there must be a lot of wedding shooters feeling the same.
 
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