AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

[john deaver]

One of my stock comments is that it helps to be half Sherpa in this line of work

i think your giving most event and doc shooters too much credit. Sherpas have a plan....we just have to roll with it.

When the original DVX100 was the camera to have i was just staring my business, i was 2 years out of college with a degree in broadcasting and i shot a cousins wedding (with a borrowed camera), then i had one of her friends call and offer me $300 to shoot her wedding. i jumped on the opportunity and my wife and i danced around the living room because someone was going to give us $300 to shoot something.

i couldn't afford a DVX100 at the time so i bought that cameras little brother the DVC-30 with the optional audio input device. wow, what a camera, i made so much money with that thing. probably to date one of my favorites. i had the opportunity to use/rent a dvx100 a few times and it was without question more than the sum of its parts. it was like the VW Bug of pro video cameras. small, reliable, simple, capable of more than it should be, and most of all you had to use it in order to get it. i really thing panasonic made the right choice with this, I'm not saying that i wouldn't have liked to see something like an AF200, and i think we probably will. but for now i would like to return to the days when it was just me and a camera.

Remember the scene in "Back to the future" when doc brown finds marty's video camera and says "it's like a tv studio in a box" yup. exactly. big sensor, big zoom, audio, big lcd, ND filters. 5 AXIS IMAGE STABILIZATION wow.

fingers crossed the EVF is good and that the ISO/Gain limits are up there
hell the fact that there is a toggle switch to change the gain is the bomb.


As my business grew i eventually invested in an HMC150, and it was good, and the image was better than a DVX100, but it lost something in the process.

I'm keeping my GH4, but if this thing can deliver the goods as far as image goes the GH4 is going to be a B cam to this. allowing me to focus on content and not swapping lenses.

if i go to shoot that narrative fiction piece I've been working on (others call this a "Film") i may use my gh4 with rented primes and an Atomos unit to get what i need. but for doc work... this new DVX looks like it for me.

 

[ATL Media Group]

Unsure what to think with this camera.
I could see it useful for some live events.... I couldn't see myself using it for weddings..... and I'm shooting 41 weddings this year

I need to be able to get really wide sliding shots, a compact option to go on a glidecam, low-light (can't comment on how the dvx200 will perform obviously).... maybe I'm too 'set in my ways', heh... but I used to shoot on a DVX100 in college, and really don't think I'd consider a fixed-lens DVX200 for weddings. If I have hesitations doing the number of weddings I'm doing with a camera like that, there must be a lot of wedding shooters feeling the same.

I shoot around 30 a year with DSLRs ( have used Nikon, GH1, GH2, GH3 GH4, Canons... currently using D750's)... I didn't jump to DSLRs until theGH1 when I dumped my HMC150 because of the larger sensor and shallow DOF... Recently I picked up a SONY AX100 as a b-cam and to play around with. I was very surprised at how much I missed shooting with a video camera... Proper NDs, built in image stabilization... etc.. I toss the AX on a glidecam and LOVE it! The image stabilization is amazing! I can hand hold it and it looks l it's on a monopod. I just wish it had a bigger sensor for better low light performance.... Hey.... Kinda like this camera!

 

[skimmel]

Can someone at NAB get an answer to this question: How many megapixels is the sensor? It would help a lot to get a sense for low light capability.

 

[soarprod]

So am I correct in that the DVX200 is roughly 4 2/3" size sensors packed in one? That should produce some killer 1080p even with that f/4.5 lens

 

[philiplipetz]

Can someone at NAB get an answer to this question: How many megapixels is the sensor? It would help a lot to get a sense for low light capability.

One Panasonic NAB rep said that it was 4k native resolution. If so that would be great. However, the sensor has to be greater than the 8Mb size of a 4K frame since the sensor allows for frame shift image stabilization.

 

[Camera Expert]

Here's a video that tries to explain why they went with a fixed lens. They'll probably release another version afterwords with interchangeable lenses as well as 10 bit 422 internal recordings if this camera ends up being only 8 bit.

10 bit 422 internal recording in 4K should be a minimum for the DVX200. Come on Panasonic! You can do it!

I have a feeling the actual price will be around $4,000 to $4,500. With that said, the Sony AX1 costs $4,500! and it has a chip size similar to what you'd find in their consumer AX33 camcorder. The 10 bit version, the Z100 is $5,500! Then you have the PX270 for $5,000 (after rebate) and the Sony PXW-X200 for $6,300 both of which are HD.

Even if it stays at $5,000, it wouldn't be out of line compared to other similar cameras but I'm expecting at least $500 lower especially if it ends up only being able to record 8 bit internally.

 

[David Jimerson]

Here's a video that tries to explain why they went with a fixed lens. They'll probably release another version afterwords with interchangeable lenses as well as 10 bit 422 internal recordings if this camera ends up being only 8 bit. 10 bit should be a minimum for the DVX200.

I have a feeling the actual price will be around $4,000 to $4,500.

Makes perfect sense if they're trying to position it the same as the original DVX, which was many, many people's introduction to the world of "professional" cameras. You have to start somewhere.

 

[skimmel]

One Panasonic NAB rep said that it was 4k native resolution. If so that would be great. However, the sensor has to be greater than the 8Mb size of a 4K frame since the sensor allows for frame shift image stabilization.

Compared with the GH4 at 16 MP, this could be very good for improving low light!

 

[pulpfiction007]

Now that it is what it is, I'm taking a look at some huge positives...for ALL kinds of work, not just "run and gun"

Many people rave about the GH4, and rightly so. Cost of a GH4 to match the DVX200 would be as follows (of course one can get used lenses, older lenses etc) but I'm going with ones that communicate with the camera and quick AF to match what the DVX200 has self contained.

GH4 breakdown:
Body - $1497
The extremely popular 12-35 2.8 Panasonic - $897
The Panasonic 45-175 - $379
Zoom H4 - $199
Tiffen Variable ND - $109
Varavon Armor GH4 pro cage - $270

Total - $3351 (Keep in mind the GH4 body is on discount as well, normally costs more)

Now imagine you can have everything listed in ONE unit, with incredible 5 Axis OIS, better audio control, way better picture controls, better focus and exposure aids, better control of the lenses, quicker AF when needed, much better battery life, a better picture control system for gamma, knee, etc (the Panasonic pro system). Lets not forget that it should have extra features and perform better IQ wise, given that it's a dedicated video camera and doesn't need to perform photography duties as well. And a big cherry on top...no need for an extra bag to carry all the extra GH4 stuff.

Sounds like a winner to me. I hope people might take a second look and new perspective like I did this evening.

 

[Thomas Smet]

In terms of low light the sensor (if it in fact only has enough pixels for 4k video instead of forcing extra pixels for stills) should technically be a bit more sensitive. Where that may be a bit counter acted is with the zoom lens which is f2.8-f4.5. Now compared to cheaper zoom lenses on the GH4 this should be much better since those are typically f3.5(4)-f5.6(5.8). The lens alone gives you a much brighter picture compared to lenses like the 14-140 lens. Compared to the f2.8 constant aperture zooms it may be a bit brighter on the wide end (due to larger pixels on the m43 sensor) but maybe about the same to a tiny bit darker on the long end (f4.5 vs f2.8). Compared to f1.4 and f1.8 lenses however I just don't see how this camera could be brighter than the GH4. While the 8.8MP sensor should allow more light per pixel I doubt it would be enough to increase the sensitivity by a stop or two.

Then again if you are in an environment where you can use a wider prime you may want to switch back to a GH4, assuming you own both cameras that is. The DVX200 excels in environments where a prime lens would never really cut it and you would be forced to use a zoom lens on the GH4. Especially if you needed the flexibility range like the 14-140 lens or greater. Then the DVX200 could very well be a bit brighter.

So if I had to make an educated guess if you are one who typically has to shoot with the 14-140 lens on the GH4 then the DVX200 would be a phenomenally useful camera to own. Especially considering you get power zoom, stellar image stabilization and an even larger reach with the lens. Could be great for long churches for wedding shooters. If you are one who almost always shoots with f1.4 or f1.8 lenses then I fear you might be slightly disappointed. Not that the DVX200 would be bad just that I highly doubt it will reach the low light ability of the GH4 with a Lumix 25mm f1.4 lens (my favorite lens).

Edit:

Sorry I read somewhere the lens was f2.8-f4.5. Now reading the brochure it sounds like it may be constant f2.8. If that is the case that is amazing! This camera should be slightly brighter than using any of the f2.8 constant zoom lenses on the GH4. Assuming the sensor does only use 8.8MP that is.

 

[Thomas Smet]

Now that it is what it is, I'm taking a look at some huge positives...for ALL kinds of work, not just "run and gun"

Many people rave about the GH4, and rightly so. Cost of a GH4 to match the DVX200 would be as follows (of course one can get used lenses, older lenses etc) but I'm going with ones that communicate with the camera and quick AF to match what the DVX200 has self contained.

GH4 breakdown:
Body - $1497
The extremely popular 12-35 2.8 Panasonic - $897
The Panasonic 45-175 - $379
Zoom H4 - $199
Tiffen Variable ND - $109
Varavon Armor GH4 pro cage - $270

Total - $3351 (Keep in mind the GH4 body is on discount as well, normally costs more)

Now imagine you can have everything listed in ONE unit, with incredible 5 Axis OIS, better audio control, way better picture controls, better focus and exposure aids, better control of the lenses, quicker AF when needed, much better battery life, a better picture control system for gamma, knee, etc (the Panasonic pro system). Lets not forget that it should have extra features and perform better IQ wise, given that it's a dedicated video camera and doesn't need to perform photography duties as well. And a big cherry on top...no need for an extra bag to carry all the extra GH4 stuff.

Sounds like a winner to me. I hope people might take a second look and new perspective like I did this evening.

be sure to the 35-100 f2.8 and a non existent 100-385mm f2.8 lens into your price as well. I think it is safe to say that if a 100-385mm f2.8 lens existed for the GH4 it would easily make up the price difference. Even if you didn't add a theoretical 100-385mm lens you should at the least add the 100-300mm Lumix lens to cover some of the same range the DVX200 can cover. the 35-100 and 100-300 already bring the price up to the price of the DVX200. Only thing missing is the ability to go wide angle. DVX200 starts at 29mm which is even longer than my 25mm lens. That could be a bit awkward to shoot with in some situations.

 

[ATL Media Group]

be sure to the 35-100 f2.8 and a non existent 100-385mm f2.8 lens into your price as well. I think it is safe to say that if a 100-385mm f2.8 lens existed for the GH4 it would easily make up the price difference. Even if you didn't add a theoretical 100-385mm lens you should at the least add the 100-300mm Lumix lens to cover some of the same range the DVX200 can cover. the 35-100 and 100-300 already bring the price up to the price of the DVX200. Only thing missing is the ability to go wide angle. DVX200 starts at 29mm which is even longer than my 25mm lens. That could be a bit awkward to shoot with in some situations.

Aye... but isn't this camera using all of the sensor so that 28mm is actually 28mm right? No crop factor? Wouldn't that actually be quite a bit wider than the 25mm on the GH4 with it's 2.3 crop?

 

[Mike Harvey]

So I just landed a long-term project for the fall/winter of this year and into next where the specs of this camera might well make sense...

What is the best seasoning for one's own words?

Sriracha sauce. Definitely sriracha sauce.

 

[Thomas Smet]

Aye... but isn't this camera using all of the sensor so that 28mm is actually 28mm right? No crop factor? Wouldn't that actually be quite a bit wider than the 25mm on the GH4 with it's 2.3 crop?

no those numbers are in 35mm terms like most lens are posted as. So a 25mm Lumix lens is 25mm in 35mm terms. Same with the DVX200. 29mm is 29mm in 35mm terms. Same m43 sensor just slightly larger pixels on the sensor. Still a 2x crop sensor compared to 35mm.

 

[pulpfiction007]

be sure to the 35-100 f2.8 and a non existent 100-385mm f2.8 lens into your price as well. I think it is safe to say that if a 100-385mm f2.8 lens existed for the GH4 it would easily make up the price difference. Even if you didn't add a theoretical 100-385mm lens you should at the least add the 100-300mm Lumix lens to cover some of the same range the DVX200 can cover. the 35-100 and 100-300 already bring the price up to the price of the DVX200. Only thing missing is the ability to go wide angle. DVX200 starts at 29mm which is even longer than my 25mm lens. That could be a bit awkward to shoot with in some situations.

Well, lets say the DVX200 starts at 28 (full frame equivalent)...and zooms x 12 - that puts it at a 28-336 in full frame terms. The GH4 lenses I listed start at 12mm and go to 175mm - but in the full frame language the 2 lenses I listed would cover 24mm to 350mm. So I basically covered the same range in my comparison.

 

[pulpfiction007]

no those numbers are in 35mm terms like most lens are posted as. So a 25mm Lumix lens is 25mm in 35mm terms. Same with the DVX200. 29mm is 29mm in 35mm terms. Same m43 sensor just slightly larger pixels on the sensor. Still a 2x crop sensor compared to 35mm.

Camcorders like the DVX100 and DVX200, XHa1s etc for that matter are listed at Full frame numbers. The GH4 lenses to be listed in similar terms would be essentially x 2. Or put another way..the DVX200 lens in GH4 terms would be called a 14 - 168

 

[Mike Harvey]

Edit:

Sorry I read somewhere the lens was f2.8-f4.5. Now reading the brochure it sounds like it may be constant f2.8. If that is the case that is amazing! This camera should be slightly brighter than using any of the f2.8 constant zoom lenses on the GH4. Assuming the sensor does only use 8.8MP that is.

Nope, it's f2.8-4.5. From the press release...

"The new handheld 4K camcorder will offer an array of professional features including a newly-designed Leica Dicomar 4K F2.8~F4.5 zoom lens (4K/24p: 29.5 mm ~ 384.9 mm, HD: 28 mm ~ 365.3mm, 35 mm equivalent),"

However, I think the big thing is where it hits the f4.5 mark. Messing around with my HMC150 (which has a f1.4-ish to f3.4-ish lens), it takes quite a while before it reaches it's slowest wide open (something like the equivalent of 155mm). It stays at it's fastest wide open until around the equivalent of 50mm if I remember right (35mm equivalent), and doesn't hit the midway point until around 90mm. It's a 13x lens that's also roughly the equivalent of 28mm-365mm. Forgive my lack of knowledge in lens physics, but I have a hard time thinking that what is basically a scaled up version of that lens is going to perform worse. f3.5-ish at 75mm-ish for a sit down interview? Yeah, I'll take that.

 

[Mike Harvey]

Camcorders like the DVX100 and DVX200, XHa1s etc for that matter are listed at Full frame numbers. The GH4 lenses to be listed in similar terms would be essentially x 2.

Good point... the 12-35mm X lens would be 24-70mm in 35mm terms. If that's the case, this lens (if my thinking is correct), would be like a 14-183mm X lens.

 

[pulpfiction007]

Good point... the 12-35mm X lens would be 24-70mm in 35mm terms. If that's the case, this lens (if my thinking is correct), would be like a 14-183mm X lens.

Yep... lol, it would be horrible if the DVX200 had a 56mm wide angle in Full frame terms, but it's actually very comparable at wide angle to all the other 1/3", 2/3" prosumer cams out there. the Norm seems to be a wide of 28 or 29mm these days. The 14-140 Panny would be the closest one could get for a GH4 in one lens, which would be called a 28-280 on a camcorder.

 

[Camera Expert]

Nope, it's f2.8-4.5. From the press release...

"The new handheld 4K camcorder will offer an array of professional features including a newly-designed Leica Dicomar 4K F2.8~F4.5 zoom lens (4K/24p: 29.5 mm ~ 384.9 mm, HD: 28 mm ~ 365.3mm, 35 mm equivalent),"

However, I think the big thing is where it hits the f4.5 mark. Messing around with my HMC150 (which has a f1.4-ish to f3.4-ish lens), it takes quite a while before it reaches it's slowest wide open (something like the equivalent of 155mm). It stays at it's fastest wide open until around the equivalent of 50mm if I remember right (35mm equivalent), and doesn't hit the midway point until around 90mm. It's a 13x lens that's also roughly the equivalent of 28mm-365mm. Forgive my lack of knowledge in lens physics, but I have a hard time thinking that what is basically a scaled up version of that lens is going to perform worse. f3.5-ish at 75mm-ish for a sit down interview? Yeah, I'll take that.

The HMC150 has a f/1.6 to f/3.0 lens.

My AC90 has an f/1.5 to f/2.8 12x lens and I just did your experiment. At the halfway zoom (6x), I'm at around f/1.9 so it's basically true that in the first half of the zoom range, the numbers are only a little bit higher.

Anyway, it does seam like Panasonic is trying to please the handheld ENG crowd who are still buying cameras with much smaller chips since those people want quickness but would still like to have a much bigger chip. Turn it on and hit record. Even though I have a GH2 (Yes, I know that's a very ancient camera) my AC90 (Also getting old) is used mostly when I'm shooting outdoor events with good enough lighting.

As mentioned, Panasonic might still be releasing an interchangeable lens version but on the other hand, you will not see Panasonic release a similar 13x interchangeable lens unless it's much bigger. The body size of the DVX200 already looks very big. Imagine how big it would have been if that lens was interchangeable? Basically I really do think theirs a market for this camera. Just like their would be a market for an interchangeable lens version. Their really should be 2 versions.