AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

how would you say the cam performs in low light compared to, say, the EX1? Sorry i keep bringing it up but its the cam im most familiar with so its my benchmark for many things.
 
Starting to realize that the DVX200 may be shoulder cam, requiring me to use my old video cam shoulder rigs. Thats OK, but my question is whether the screw mount is positioned properly for this on most rigs so we can use the eye piece. It seems to be a bit longer than I am used to. Not horribly worried but just checking.
 
Jim, both, but was most worried about rear. you have one so what is the best shoulder rig and how good is the match? I assume that it will require offset, but will it work with both or does it require an accessory viewfinder.
 
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joe 1008 said:
Take an URSA mini with global shutter - the crop should still be HD! Or are there any inverted speed boosters, eh, slow roosters? :Drogar-Kriz(DBG):
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Yes there are, called teleconverters. A speedbooster shrinks the image to a smaller format = widens + gains brightness, and a teleconverter spread the image to a larger format = zoom in + lose brightness.

If I wanted a long reach I'd definitely shoot on a small sensor fixed lens camera, they just do that better. Shallow depth of field? large sensor + interchangeable lenses.

This is where the dvx200 comes in, for some people it be a balance gathering the best of both worlds (those who want a little background blur and moderate zoom), and for others it will be gathering the worst of both world (no long reach and no shallow depth of field.

I think this is a great camera for events, and if the internal codec (HD and/or 4K) is 50mbps 4:2:2 compliant then it's also a broadcast/news beast strongly rivaling the much more expensive C300 + 25-105mm that's dominating broadcast around the globe as the only small, versatile, reliable, rugged and high quality HD image with standard 50mbps 4:2:2 and shallow-ish dof and great audio, SDI/Timecode/geblock connections, all checked by the DVX200 at 4000$ vs 10-16K, if it does 50mbps 4:2:2 that is, will be a huge hit in broadcast, if it's lower, the sales and user base is tiny.
 
God really? no +50mbps 4:2:2 HD? I wouldn't think any body in Panasonic could make such a decision.

Are you sure?

I mean HD not 4K (4k on this 1:1 sensor is 4:2:0 by physics anyway).

Searched around the web and no information whatsoever, just one spec at 4K 150mbps 4:2:0 codec.

Just 4:2:2 +50mbps at HD sells 20x as many cameras of this particular model, not exaggerating.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
If I wanted a long reach I'd definitely shoot on a small sensor fixed lens camera, they just do that better. Shallow depth of field? large sensor + interchangeable lenses. .
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Are they offering any crop modes besides the digital zoom?

And would it make any difference, if they did?
 
The only situation where digital zoom is beneficial is in 4K cameras that only shoot HD, at which case you get a decent multiplication in field of view without much loss in image quality (but there is loss, as your giving up the 4K supersampling to perfect 1080p and reading a 1:1 1080p bayer area, which gives less resolution than 1080p).

Again only in cameras that have 4K sensors and are capped at HD recording, as if it can record 4K the same process can be replicated more accurately and with more freedom in post production.

Given that most video cameras are not supersampling now (4K cameras are mostly 8mp sensors) the only cameras where this is practically available are stills cameras with video mode, due to having an exceptionally high resolution sensor at 5-6K and only capped at HD. Examples are GH2/3/4, T3i/70D, G6, D810/a7s/a7r s35 crop modes and so on.

What is the resolution of the DVX200 sensor? I think it was 12mp and the 16:9 area is 8.3 (4K), or is it 16 like the GH4 sensor? I even read 20.3 whilst searching.

If it's 8mp, digital zoom is no go, if it's more, digital zoom is probably great.
 
It's a 5K sensor that resamples down to 4K.

When in HD mode, it does an internal 1.54x "i.Zoom", which is a cropping in on the frame, but which retains 100% full resolution in the 1080p image.

It also has "Digital Zoom", but that's something entirely different -- that's just digitally scaling up the HD frame, and I can't see why any rational person would ever want to use it.
 
5K as in 16 megapixels on the GH4? Do you know the pixelsXpixels and dimensions of the sensor Barry-Green? And is it confirmed it doesn't record +50mbps 4:2:2 in HD?
 
If you just want HD then the PXW-X70 I think is a better option at half the price. 10 bit 4:2:2 at 50Mbps. With Clear Image Zoom extends to 24x zoom range. So the difference is 50/60P UHD and the key for me is if it is really that much better than the HC-X1000 or the Sony FDR-AX1/PXW-Z100. We will have to wait and see.
 
Ron Evans said:
If you just want HD then the PXW-X70 I think is a better option at half the price. 10 bit 4:2:2 at 50Mbps. With Clear Image Zoom extends to 24x zoom range. So the difference is 50/60P UHD and the key for me is if it is really that much better than the HC-X1000 or the Sony FDR-AX1/PXW-Z100. We will have to wait and see.
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I think it's kind of apples and oranges... the X70 has the same aperture range as the DVX200 (f/2.8-f/4.5), so coupled with the it's much smaller sensor, you're trading internal 4:2:2 and zoom range for shallower depth of field and low light ability.
 
Agreed . One has to decide what is important. As I mentioned in another post. I have the AX100 ( essentially the same sensor etc as the X70 ) it has a very clean image at high gains so comes close to matching the 1/3" HD sensor in my NX30 which has a f1.6 lens. Neither match the 3 x 1/3 sensors in my NX5U and the FDR-AX1 ( 1/2.3 but really close to 1/3" usable sensor or close to the same sensor size as the NX5U but with lots more pixels ) that I have is at least 2 stops slower than the NX5U. Both with similar 20x f1.6 to f3.4 lens . Just because a sensor is bigger does not mean it has better performance in practice. There is a much bigger difference between the 1/2.3 sensors in the HC-X1000, FDR-AX1/PXW-Z100 and the 1" sensor in the X70 than between the X70 and the DVX200. One also has to consider how much of the sensor is actually being used rather than the simplistic area comparison. In the case of the DVX200 it is cropped even more for UHD 60P so how much bigger is it then than the X70 1" sensor ? Not a fair comparison I know since the X70 cannot do 60P, wish it could.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
5K as in 16 megapixels on the GH4?
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5K as in the specifications say it uses 15.5 megapixels in FHD, 8.7 mpix in UHD/60p, 12.9mpix in UHD/30p, and 13.35mpix in 4K/24p.

Do you know the pixelsXpixels and dimensions of the sensor Barry-Green?
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They have not published those, but a little math puts it at 5248 x 2952 for HD, 3935 x 2213 for UHD/60p, 4787 x 2693 for UHD/30p, and 5022 x 2659 for 4K/24p.

And is it confirmed it doesn't record +50mbps 4:2:2 in HD?
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Yes. It's 8-bit 4:2:0 in all recording modes. It outputs 8-bit 4:2:2 when recording. It can also output 10-bit 4:2:2 if not recording.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes. It's 8-bit 4:2:0 in all recording modes. It outputs 8-bit 4:2:2 when recording. It can also output 10-bit 4:2:2 if not recording.
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This is a disappointment. I was ok with F4-ish lens, heavier body...but its 2015. Why can't we just have a professional camera that records a professional bitrate. Why is it so hard to put 10 bit in this camera? recording media? processor? It's not. My BMPCC can do it to SD cards. Even as a paid upgrade (ala PXW-X70) I would pay for this. I rely on a 10bit workflow because of the amount of compositing and VFX work I do. I looked at this camera as a great all-in-one package for that kind of work. I hate attaching things to cameras. As much as the camera community loves to "rig out" cameras - I miss the simplicity of the DVX that was plug and play. No recorders, not extra monitors, no follow focus and rails.

Count me out. :/
 
filmfan222 said:
This is a disappointment. I was ok with F4-ish lens, heavier body...but its 2015. Why can't we just have a professional camera that records a professional bitrate. Why is it so hard to put 10 bit in this camera? recording media? processor? It's not. My BMPCC can do it to SD cards. Even as a paid upgrade (ala PXW-X70) I would pay for this. I rely on a 10bit workflow because of the amount of compositing and VFX work I do. I looked at this camera as a great all-in-one package for that kind of work. I hate attaching things to cameras. As much as the camera community loves to "rig out" cameras - I miss the simplicity of the DVX that was plug and play. No recorders, not extra monitors, no follow focus and rails.

Count me out. :/
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Well then, just go out and buy the other >$5000 m43 fixed lens... oh wait.

If a camera doesn't have what you need, you can be disappointed all you like, it won't change what it is. Meanwhile there are those using 8 bt 4:2:0 cameras left and right and suiting their needs just fine, if your needs are 10bit, then you have to pony up the cash or take serious compromise. Camera companies are never going to make YOUR camera, they are making a mass marketable camera.

i probably sound harsh, but i still love ya.
 
I think the notion that I can be "disappointed and things wont change" is an old way of thinking. That's the entire role of product managers is to listen to the market and build a product that fits those needs within the constraints of manufacturing, marketing, trends, etc. Plenty of examples in the camera industry of companies listening to customer requests and accomodating...even after product is in market. I just think that 10 bit is not a big ask. Not asking for a f1.8 365mm lens, or 4k 240fps, etc. It just seems with BMD and Sony releasing $900 cameras and up that can record 10 bit codecs, Panny would have followed suit.

Just a note - a bunch of us emailed Panny directly asking for this. So we aren't just complaining into the forum. I wrote an email about my work, why 10 bit matters, and even made some pricing considerations to how much more I would pay for 10 bit.
 
filmfan222 said:
I think the notion that I can be "disappointed and things wont change" is an old way of thinking. That's the entire role of product managers is to listen to the market and build a product that fits those needs within the constraints of manufacturing, marketing, trends, etc. Plenty of examples in the camera industry of companies listening to customer requests and accomodating...even after product is in market. I just think that 10 bit is not a big ask. Not asking for a f1.8 365mm lens, or 4k 240fps, etc. It just seems with BMD and Sony releasing $900 cameras and up that can record 10 bit codecs, Panny would have followed suit.

Just a note - a bunch of us emailed Panny directly asking for this. So we aren't just complaining into the forum. I wrote an email about my work, why 10 bit matters, and even made some pricing considerations to how much more I would pay for 10 bit.
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but again you're not seeing the point, you just mentioned $900 cameras that have what you want... but you're not buying one of those because they're entirely different cameras. Making requests and suggestions is of course great and always a good idea, but looking at the dvx200 as a disappointment because it only checked off 9 out of your 10 must haves, is only relevant to you, 1 person, panasonic isn't making the camera at this price for you, they're making it for a market segment. it's fine that it's not for you, but it's sure as heck not a disappointment if 1000s of people have great use for it with its specs and price point.
 
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