AF100-Successor in 2015!!!!

Look, I have a C100 and two Black Magic Pocket cams. They are compromises. The C100 provides great images, but lacks the depth to satisfy "broadcast" standards. The Pocket Cameras produce great images, use all my MFT and adapted lenses, but like the GH4, require audio enhancement, ND filters and an EVF - which are added hassles and require attention to multiple batteries - and the moire issues pop up unexpectedly and ruin otherwise excellent shots.

I have pre-ordered a JVC (because I can use all my MFTs - plus all the S16 lenses I've had for 30 years) but it's an unknown quantity. This possible announcement by Panasonic, a little late if JVC's offering is good, will fill almost all those needs for me.

I just want it to be a professional grade product because after my $30,000 HPX500 fiasco i will never spend big bucks on changing technology again. But up to $5000 is reasonable, and I'll cancel the JVC because I've liked Panasonic's "mojo" since the DVX.
 
Same boat, Mac. Still soldiering on with the AF100 since it's "good enough" for most AVCHD work and can take a Samurai for occasional broadcast stuff. GH4 is nice for what it is, but there are too many reasons to just grab the AF100 when I want to work quickly in changing conditions... and I hate buying cameras every 2 years, I have no interest in a "budget pro" rig... that would be served fine with a used C300. I want the most damn camera I can get for $4-6K, not Canon's AVCHD wobbly goblin, not a bloated URSA, just a good solid flexible grab-the-handle-and-go on any number of jobs type thing that the AF100 ALMOST was for so long.
 
OldCorpse said:
I'm not sure what you're proposing for a $3K AF. What would you leave out? 10 bit 4:2:2 internal? 4K?


It's actually quite logical. By having a bare bones cam body, you are minimizing the price, yes, but with peripherals you are actually bringing up the quality. F.ex., they could include only a rudimentary monitor to keep the price down. You want more, get the pro monitor that has all the bells and whistles. It's win-win. Why? Because people use monitors differently. Some demand peaking, others find peaking misleading and don't want it; some demand waveform, others want something else and so on. So what does Panasonic - or Sony, or whoever - usually do? Well, they include a monitor that is middle of the road, pleasing nobody... it's too much for the minimalist, and it's too little for those who demand some function that has been left off. So why not save the money on the mediocre monitor that pleases no one, and give an optional monitor that has all the bells and whistles - that way, if you're a minimalist you don't have to buy it, saving money, and if you want the top of the line, you can buy that peripheral... not to mention that many people already have a monitor and would rather that Panasonic charge less for a basic function instead of including a mediocre monitor for more money. It's all about picking and choosing what you want. F.ex., I don't need XLRs in my cam - I record dual sound for top quality narrative work... so I'd rather save the money on the XLR - but if you want it for Run & Gun, then you can buy an audio module with XLR inputs... maybe somebody prefers to work with simple codecs or doesn't need raw - save the money; you need it - get the recorder option. Clearly including ALL the options that EVERYBODY can wish for is first of all quite expensive and second of all not even possible (there's always something someone wants that's rare) - plus odds are that it'll be implemented in a mediocre way unless the cost is through the roof.

Bottom line, by mixing and matching and buying only what you need, you end up 1) paying less money because you pay only for what you actually want and use 2) get higher quality components 3) can grow with the camera and change the mix of features as your needs change and evolve instead of having to buy a whole new "fully featured camera" for a ton of money.
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I think these are great ideas but I cannot imagine Panasonic implementing them. I agree with a lot of this except paying less money. It will cost more to build out a camera ala the Cion. I just don't think that Panasonic is going to ever provide just a body.
 
TheDingo said:
...So we end up with an AF200 with a typical Panasonic EVF bolted to back of the top handle that many of us will never use, because we want an EVF we can use with the camera shoulder mounted. Then we are stuck with being limited to only AVCHD CODEC support, so we have to buy a 3rd party $2,000+ recorder that somehow has to bolted to our new AF200 Franken-rig.

I just wish that Panasonic would not be so short sighted as to not realize that there is a market for higher end accessories that can be used to upgrade the basic camera.
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Yeah, if it's going to land at the price point most people want, it's going to be a panasonic camera. I always thought the LCD on the AF100 was pretty good and I used the EVF effectively. I wouldn't want a camera with the EVF on the back anymore either. They could do an FS7 thing but they will provide that stuff whether we use it or not. I would not have been able to shoot with just the LCD and EVF on the AF100 so I got a TV Logic Monitor right away. Sure.

As I said in my other posts, I hope they take more from the Varicam and charge for it. That'd be fine by me.
 
hscully said:
They could do an FS7 thing
Click to expand...

But they didn't and I won't expect it which is why I have owned an FS7 since Nov and been happy as punch. The FS7 blew everyone out of the water price/performance wise and still sits alone in a market which will be occupied by a pricier C300II and lower priced BM cams. I honestly don't see these AF200 rumours coming anywhere near the mark. 16 stops DR? keep dreaming. 10bit 422 internal? Clean high ISO? Not going to happen at the price points people keep talking about in this thread.

The GH4 with all the inputs/outputs of the YAGH unit is pretty much what you can expect for the sub $4K-$5K market. Canon sells well in the lower end with cameras that top out at 12 stops and 60p in 2015. Panasonic has become the victim of the unrealistic expectations of its fan base. No camera can every deliver the expectations mulled about in this thread.
 
OldCorpse said:
I'm not sure what you're proposing for a $3K AF. What would you leave out? 10 bit 4:2:2 internal? 4K?


It's actually quite logical. By having a bare bones cam body, you are minimizing the price, yes, but with peripherals you are actually bringing up the quality. F.ex., they could include only a rudimentary monitor to keep the price down. You want more, get the pro monitor that has all the bells and whistles. It's win-win. Why? Because people use monitors differently. Some demand peaking, others find peaking misleading and don't want it; some demand waveform, others want something else and so on. So what does Panasonic - or Sony, or whoever - usually do? Well, they include a monitor that is middle of the road, pleasing nobody... it's too much for the minimalist, and it's too little for those who demand some function that has been left off. So why not save the money on the mediocre monitor that pleases no one, and give an optional monitor that has all the bells and whistles - that way, if you're a minimalist you don't have to buy it, saving money, and if you want the top of the line, you can buy that peripheral... not to mention that many people already have a monitor and would rather that Panasonic charge less for a basic function instead of including a mediocre monitor for more money. It's all about picking and choosing what you want. F.ex., I don't need XLRs in my cam - I record dual sound for top quality narrative work... so I'd rather save the money on the XLR - but if you want it for Run & Gun, then you can buy an audio module with XLR inputs... maybe somebody prefers to work with simple codecs or doesn't need raw - save the money; you need it - get the recorder option. Clearly including ALL the options that EVERYBODY can wish for is first of all quite expensive and second of all not even possible (there's always something someone wants that's rare) - plus odds are that it'll be implemented in a mediocre way unless the cost is through the roof.

Bottom line, by mixing and matching and buying only what you need, you end up 1) paying less money because you pay only for what you actually want and use 2) get higher quality components 3) can grow with the camera and change the mix of features as your needs change and evolve instead of having to buy a whole new "fully featured camera" for a ton of money.
Click to expand...

I do no want this type of camera. As stated, modular = money. Modular = potentially flimsy. Bare bones = DSLR. A "sensor in a box" with a bunch of add-ons would be a mistake imho.
 
Bassman2003 said:
Sure they can - a PX270 with a 4k sensor that does 120fps in 1080p (or at least 720p) with 12 stops DR for $4500-$5000.
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Bingo. Lose the lense and replace it with a m4/3 mount and large format 4k sensor. Otherwise, the exact same camera concept as the PX270. It would be a better bargain bang for buck than the competition.
 
When I shoot with my own gear I'm shooting with Panasonic . . . when I'm using someone else's stuff or rented gear it could be anything.
I quit holding my breath two NAB's ago, although I guess it doesn't cost anything to hope?
I'd love to be (happily) surprised but you know what the greatest (IMHO) influencing factor is?

We lost our advocate.





(When Jan retired).
 
FrameFarmMedia said:
But they didn't and I won't expect it which is why I have owned an FS7 since Nov and been happy as punch. The FS7 blew everyone out of the water price/performance wise and still sits alone in a market which will be occupied by a pricier C300II and lower priced BM cams. I honestly don't see these AF200 rumours coming anywhere near the mark. 16 stops DR? keep dreaming. 10bit 422 internal? Clean high ISO? Not going to happen at the price points people keep talking about in this thread.

The GH4 with all the inputs/outputs of the YAGH unit is pretty much what you can expect for the sub $4K-$5K market. Canon sells well in the lower end with cameras that top out at 12 stops and 60p in 2015. Panasonic has become the victim of the unrealistic expectations of its fan base. No camera can every deliver the expectations mulled about in this thread.
Click to expand...

Well that's they idea. They didn't but they might! Which is the reason for all the AF200 wish list threads. The FS7 is a very Sony product with their codecs and output features. I was hoping that Panasonic might take a note from the FS7 regarding ergonomics and EVF placement. But a Panasonic to compete would, of course, use their new media, something closer to the specs of their HCX-1000 output, with 4K, UHD, etc.

Panasonic seems to like to wait it out then beat Sony on a competitive camera at a slightly lower price. My guess would be around $6200.
 
I've been going with the AF100 as my main cam for several years now. With the Lumix 12-35 and a Nokton 25mm, and the addition of a wooden handle from Olof at Westside AV, it has been the near-perfect tool for close to 90% of the work I do. With a GH2 and GH3 and some other m43 lenses, I have a pretty decent arsenal built around the format. And though I have the typical nitpicks about highlight handling, DR, etc. (and I also personally hate the colorimetry of the AF100... never have been able to dial it in to where I like the images straight out of the camera)... I just love the overall feature set for the price. It has never once failed me and has held up extremely well under a wide variety of situations.

It is definitely getting near time to upgrade though. 4K, 120fps higher bit rate recording, etc. are all things I either want now or will need soon. I really like most of what I see in the FS7, but the thought of having to outfit that cam with the lenses I would need to cover the functionality I now have is pretty daunting. If Panasonic is about to unveil an AF200 (or whatever it might be called) that meets even half the rumored improvements over the AF100, they will easily get my money. Such a camera would be worth $5-6000 for me and if they really deliver the goods I would pay even more.
 
Dave Rochelle said:
I've been going with the AF100 as my main cam for several years now. It is definitely getting near time to upgrade though. 4K, 120fps higher bit rate recording, etc. are all things I either want now or will need soon.
Click to expand...

I, too, have a AF100 (actually an AF100a) that I picked up on the grey market for $2500. I like shooting with it a great deal. I also use an FS700 which isn't as ergonomically pleasing, but the image is superior. For tough, interior industrial shoots where weight matters, I find myself gravitating to the AF. Image is more than acceptable.

I'd like Panny to stick a GH4 (or even GH2) sensor in a video form factor (MFT mount) with the other features you mentioned such as 4K, overcranking, etc... We'd have decent DR and a cam to grow with. Fingers crossed big time for NAB.

Otherwise I'll move to either the LS300 (if the sensor's image is substantiated as professionally acceptable) or the FS7.
 
I owned the AF100 and although the video ergonomics and features were great I just couldn't warrant keeping it for my start-up business after I saw the image quality of the GH2 at 10% of the cost.

Now 3 years on, business is ticking over and even though I have finely tuned my "DSLR" style of shooting with my beloved GH3, GH2 and GX7, I am starting to yearn for the advanced image and controls of a fully-fledged video camera knowing it would make my life easier.

The Canon C100 Mark II looks like it would be a perfect fit for my business, but what I would prefer is something from Panasonic that will seamlessly fit with my current lenses and look.

I will be ready at some point in the next 12 months to invest in the camera that will serve me for the next 3 years, so Dear Panasonic, don't make me buy a Canon! ;-)
 
My guess is, that the new AF-100 will have better internal codecs in HD, like 4:2:2, 100 mbps, 1080p.

Unfortunately, I fear the the 4k capability will be marginal (UHD 4:2:0 60mbps), so that it doesn't impact sales of the "big" Panasonic cameras. Panasonic had years to release an AF-100 that could shoot 50+ mbps, but they just never did it. (unless you had a nano flash I guess)
 
I think 43Rumors meant the GH4-style hybrid camera rather than an AF-style camcorder. But, hey, it's less than two weeks to go until the NAB.
 
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