AF100 noise
- Thread starter Steve Kahn
- Start date
True many may have it enabled. I always turn it off as I hate the look it produces. The clip in question looked great on my TV with NR off.
jaypass
Well-known member
I think Noel's point is that we really can't determine that workflow UNTIL the camera is actually released. Right now the only people that can help answer your question are those who have actually worked with the camera personally, which is only a handful of people. And I think a number of those people are tired of participating in this conversation(And rightfully so, considering how out of hand it got last time this topic was approached in the forum.) So in reality, while yes, discovering the best workflow would be nice, its just not going to happen until everyone is actively working with the camera and posting their results.
Until then, discussing it here is really only going to frustrate everyone involved, because the answer just isn't there yet.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Exactly.
Oh my we have a winner in jaypass. You NAILED IT! Thank you.
Marc Villafan
Well-known member
Agreed. I nominate JayPass for the title: The Truth Teller.
Taylor Rudd
Veteran
jaypass
Well-known member
Love it! hahaha
you only have to do it when you change some thing like ISO, or White balance.
Yak
Well-known member
7.5 IRE is "Black" on NTSC! In HD the broadcast standard for "Black" is 0 not 7.5 IRE so no one is looking where they should not be looking to see "noise"
Yea fool! i still have mine!
How did you get that hat did mark send it to you? or did you make em and send it to us?
Jay A. Kelley
Well-known member
I got my camera Friday and hooked it up.. I cannot BELIEVE all they included in this little thing.. Wow. (By the way Barry.. GREAT BOOK it came with the camera).
As for the shot... Yeah... Noisy blacks. Not gonna comment on the calibrated monitor thing cause... Well.. I do that.
Now then, is this noise a result of the camera? I am no where close to being able to answe that question. It's brand new, has not been burned in at all, has not been black balanced, etc. Now you may ask, "If you have not done anything yet, then why post about the noise?" I think because I want people to know that for me, it does exist at this point, and when/if I am able to get rid of it, I will share that information. I also plan to try the various suggestions on the boards, and let you know those results.
Do I think it's the monitors? No. I don't. My edit suite has a number of Monitors, Computer monitors for checking pic on Web, LCD broadcast, and a big 'ol 50 inch plasma. I know what the pics are suppose to look like in all of them.. Some are set for 7.5 (Old school) and others, for 0. That said, the 7.5 monitors should show me "gray blacks" but not noisy gray blacks. And the 0 monitors don't show much of anything in black areas cause.. Well, it's black..
My guess at this point: It's going to be fine. I have been a panasonic customer (But not an employee) for many years, and there's no way they will damage their rep by putting out a noisy camera, no matter how much it costs. Sony would slam it down their throats every day of the week for a year.. No one needs that
We're running the camera through our usual tests before we start the DVD on it.. Rest assured, if this is an issue, if this does require a certain procedure, then we will cover it completely in the DVD.. You will know everything, the good, and the bad.. With no sugar coating. Until the DVD I will share the basics of what I find out on here, once I have some better data.
You know, where I come from, some times you have to black balance more than once.. Not everyone does.
Jay
As for the shot... Yeah... Noisy blacks. Not gonna comment on the calibrated monitor thing cause... Well.. I do that.
Now then, is this noise a result of the camera? I am no where close to being able to answe that question. It's brand new, has not been burned in at all, has not been black balanced, etc. Now you may ask, "If you have not done anything yet, then why post about the noise?" I think because I want people to know that for me, it does exist at this point, and when/if I am able to get rid of it, I will share that information. I also plan to try the various suggestions on the boards, and let you know those results.
Do I think it's the monitors? No. I don't. My edit suite has a number of Monitors, Computer monitors for checking pic on Web, LCD broadcast, and a big 'ol 50 inch plasma. I know what the pics are suppose to look like in all of them.. Some are set for 7.5 (Old school) and others, for 0. That said, the 7.5 monitors should show me "gray blacks" but not noisy gray blacks. And the 0 monitors don't show much of anything in black areas cause.. Well, it's black..
My guess at this point: It's going to be fine. I have been a panasonic customer (But not an employee) for many years, and there's no way they will damage their rep by putting out a noisy camera, no matter how much it costs. Sony would slam it down their throats every day of the week for a year.. No one needs that
We're running the camera through our usual tests before we start the DVD on it.. Rest assured, if this is an issue, if this does require a certain procedure, then we will cover it completely in the DVD.. You will know everything, the good, and the bad.. With no sugar coating. Until the DVD I will share the basics of what I find out on here, once I have some better data.
You know, where I come from, some times you have to black balance more than once.. Not everyone does.
Jay
i have been scepticle for sure since i got the camera a week ago. heres what i wrote in another thread, as i havent read to bulk of this thread,
sorry if i am overlapping, but i would like to share my experience. the af100 IS clean clean clean and very sharp. i was ready to boot it out of my room last week, but it all changed with the viewing on a proper HD broadcast sony LCD (as expressed by many users). though i do not own one, got into the school HD suite and viewed some clips. all i could say is wow. i couldnt believe the gap from my normal system to this, and that is what i have been missing; the gap from a proper HD post workflow. i am only dvi to hdmi out of my macbook pro to a HDTV, which now i have seen is not a proper way to view HD content out of a computer.
for me, the footage was about 50% cleaner from noise levels and much sharper. my settings are-
detail -7
v detail -7
coring +2
m ped -2
chroma level -2
gamma high
matirx norm 2
DRS 1
so far i like the soft, yet sharp flat image with a lot of dynamic range for post colour adjustments. the DRS adds the slightest grain which helps for a film look in my eyes. i just wanted to share my experience for anyone still not convinced. i couldnt imagine shooting 720 60P at a motorcycle race track or football game; the camera is here to stay for me.
my next step, if anyone has suggestions, what kind of converter would i be looking for to get a true 1080p signal out of my computer to my HDTV. i have been looking at black magic, but this is new territory for me.
i loved the image coming out of the camera at these settings, though for no colour work maybe more pedistal and chroma for straight to edit work. more tests to be done, but one things for sure, the image was wonderful; i am going to edit a sequence then output it in the suite. we also have a scene in march we will be comparing super16mm with (16 will be outputted to hdcam), so lots to see.
sorry if i am overlapping, but i would like to share my experience. the af100 IS clean clean clean and very sharp. i was ready to boot it out of my room last week, but it all changed with the viewing on a proper HD broadcast sony LCD (as expressed by many users). though i do not own one, got into the school HD suite and viewed some clips. all i could say is wow. i couldnt believe the gap from my normal system to this, and that is what i have been missing; the gap from a proper HD post workflow. i am only dvi to hdmi out of my macbook pro to a HDTV, which now i have seen is not a proper way to view HD content out of a computer.
for me, the footage was about 50% cleaner from noise levels and much sharper. my settings are-
detail -7
v detail -7
coring +2
m ped -2
chroma level -2
gamma high
matirx norm 2
DRS 1
so far i like the soft, yet sharp flat image with a lot of dynamic range for post colour adjustments. the DRS adds the slightest grain which helps for a film look in my eyes. i just wanted to share my experience for anyone still not convinced. i couldnt imagine shooting 720 60P at a motorcycle race track or football game; the camera is here to stay for me.
my next step, if anyone has suggestions, what kind of converter would i be looking for to get a true 1080p signal out of my computer to my HDTV. i have been looking at black magic, but this is new territory for me.
i loved the image coming out of the camera at these settings, though for no colour work maybe more pedistal and chroma for straight to edit work. more tests to be done, but one things for sure, the image was wonderful; i am going to edit a sequence then output it in the suite. we also have a scene in march we will be comparing super16mm with (16 will be outputted to hdcam), so lots to see.
Jay A. Kelley
Well-known member
Update
Update
Spent a few min with the camera this morning.. Switched to video mode for the hell of it. Put up a Camalign chart, and started lookinig things over. Noise was there, and the black levels were a little high. So I set Master Ped down to Negative 2. I did NOT do that to hide the noise, I did it to get my camera to jive with my chart.
After that, I looked at it.. Then reset it back to 0, and then did a black balance.
For those that have not done this, I cannot stress enough the importance of BLACK for a black balance:
Take off any lens adaptor
Cap the camera with the cap that comes from Panasonic.
Set the ND to 4
Turn off lights in room
The black balance your camera.
When I did this.. Noise.... Buh Bye!
Now I am going to hook this little guy up to some leader scopes here in a min to be sure, and then will record some footage using a Nano-Flash (Don't want to introduce the variable of a 4:2:0 codec into this yet).
Bottom line for me though: At the CURRENT settings I am on, the camera looks fine, and I have NOT altered the pic to hide the noise.
Ooh, in case anyone asks, I'm at ISO 200 I think.. Will check.
Jay
Update
Spent a few min with the camera this morning.. Switched to video mode for the hell of it. Put up a Camalign chart, and started lookinig things over. Noise was there, and the black levels were a little high. So I set Master Ped down to Negative 2. I did NOT do that to hide the noise, I did it to get my camera to jive with my chart.
After that, I looked at it.. Then reset it back to 0, and then did a black balance.
For those that have not done this, I cannot stress enough the importance of BLACK for a black balance:
Take off any lens adaptor
Cap the camera with the cap that comes from Panasonic.
Set the ND to 4
Turn off lights in room
The black balance your camera.
When I did this.. Noise.... Buh Bye!
Now I am going to hook this little guy up to some leader scopes here in a min to be sure, and then will record some footage using a Nano-Flash (Don't want to introduce the variable of a 4:2:0 codec into this yet).
Bottom line for me though: At the CURRENT settings I am on, the camera looks fine, and I have NOT altered the pic to hide the noise.
Ooh, in case anyone asks, I'm at ISO 200 I think.. Will check.
Jay
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
All of this is unnecessary when black balancing the camera.
Jay A. Kelley
Well-known member
This may be true depending on HOW the AF-100 black balances. I am use to the RED lately, and rather than memorize the different procedures for each camera, I just use a fail-safe method that works for them all.
So while it may be "unnecessary" it doesn't hurt either!
Jay
Edit: Matt's right. For reasons passing understanding I have gotten my cameras completely mixed up. Video cameras black balance in a completely different way than cameras like RED... Cut me some slack! I have a bad cold!
Thanks Matt
Last edited:
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
No biggie.