AF100 Lens Suggestions

Hi Catherine,

Since I also do documentary shooting and own the Tokina 28-70mm I thought I'd give you my .02¢ Nice job you did on the clock documentary, I do that type of shooting a lot. Which camera did you use for that?

First off, although it may take several days, do what I did when I considered the AF100: Go to Day One of this forum and speed read the threads pertaining to lenses, especially from a documentary perspective and buy Barry's DVD. I figured out many people on this board do a lot of "set up" or dramatic/highly stylized shooting and their requirements are very different than our cinema verite needs. Also, many shooters seem to have a printing press in their basement...

One post that I remember made the point to rent some lenses with the most range and note after a couple of doc shoots what range of mm you tend to shoot in most. Some people like to hang back and be tele, I like to be on wide angle and up physically close, I don't mind being on top of people to simulate a human POV, (my 11mm isn't wide enough for me). That would be a great way to figure out what you need. Don't reject buying used lenses. The term "parfocal" is deceiving because I have been burned by it, you need to confirm focus constantly. I am Old School: I do not trust auto, or rather I should say what I want to be in focus can be different than what the camera thinks I want in focus.

I have not yet used a Lumix but I now have gotten good at changing f-stop either from the lens ring or my Novoflex adapter so the extra expense of controlling it from the camera I don't get, perhaps someone can educate me.

Here's my Tokina 28-70mm story of last week: I am producing a corporate video series that is to have the "look" of a real documentary, very typical assignment. I hired a DP with a Scarlet for my master angles and I used my AF100 as run around B-Camera. The AF100 is not good as a run n' gun/doc/reality camera (neither is the C300, F3, FS700 etc.) but I am doing my best to make it work instead of griping about it (check out threads on that). Like Erik said you need to be able to change lenses FAST, similar to:

http://vimeo.com/6171118

As usual I noticed how slowed down I was changing lenses, keeping track of caps, keeping the public from stealing the bags, etc. so I kept on the Tokina 28-70 for 80% of the time and that range worked well for me. Lots of documentary action happens in that range! Especially people oriented scenes. If I needed a tighter face shot I am not shy about getting physically closer. My Tokina 11-16mm handled the wide and the missing range of 17-27mm I took care of by changing the shot and/or my distance. So my point is, if money is a concern and you don't have a printing press in your basement, you already have a lens with a very useful documentary range right now. The lens doesn't have much value to sell as used so consider it your "starter" lens. And learn to change lenses quickly...

I prefer primes for talking heads because they are slightly sharper and faster, unless I have a client who wants to change focal length after every interview question (ugh). So keep your 50mm and add a few more when money permits, remember to look for used with a return guarantee. If you live by a large city Craigslist is good for getting lenses because you can meet (safely) and try them out. If you can't afford the Lumix 12-35 look over the posts for highly recommended lenses that will cover the wide to 28mm range or at least most of it. Then keep an eye out for the 70-140ish range but you will not be able to get away from changing lenses all day long.

On another note, (I don't want to get far off the lens topic) but you wondered if the AF100 is a good doc camera. Just want to say, if money is tight, I learned that the shoulder rig to do hand held documentary (comfortably) is going to end up costing quite a bit, PLUS I learned the hard way I need an EVF for outdoor sunny day shooting to get my eye up against a cup so I can truly confirm focus and exposure. You will have to balance your glass budget with rig/monitoring costs because in documentary it will be on your shoulder a lot and you need to have confirmation of focus and exposure. The lens doesn't matter if the shot is shakey, out of focus and the exposure is off, so beware the costs of the accessories to make the AF100 useful as a doc camera.

Best regards,

Ned
 
Actually, setting up an AF100 for handheld shooting can be relatively inexpensive.... Cineroid EVFs (the old model) are under $500 now, you can easily make a bracket to mount it forward off the front of the handle with hardware store stuff, about another $40.. Olaf makes a great handle (I think about $350) that can mount low and forward of the camera, but you could easily make one yourself with a bicycle grip and tubing - and the camera itself can sit smack on your shoulder, just like an Aaton - You don't need to go out and spend big bucks for a fancy shoulder pad/rig - in fact the AF100 is lighter, smaller and sleeker without one.

I love shooting with my camera set up this way with the 12-35, it's my favorite setup since my old Eclair ACL with a 200' mag and 9.5-57mm zoom.
 
I don't want to go long off lens topic to shoulder rig topic but I feel if I have to shoot hand held for HOURS, if not all day, I want it snugly on my shoulder, like the old Aaton, Betacam or Varicam. Balanced, so if I let go the camera sits there on my shoulder, unless I sneeze. That's what I have now with my rig (but I do have an Anton Bauer on the rear).

Olaf's handle started at $350 but without the $150 additional for the left handed extension that he custom made on my design, there was no way to lay the unit down without it toppling over. Also, many people want rods to add follow focus, etc. And as to going to the hardware store to bend pipe to make your own rig, some people aren't McGuyvers like you two...

So the original point I was making to Catherine, which I still think is valid: since she doesn't have the $1300 for a Lumix 12-35: Be prepared for earmarking money for other toys like the rig and the EVF. The glass budget has to be balanced with the other accessory requirements to get the whole enchilada humming. $1300 is a lot of money for only 23mm of usability.

At least it's lighter than the old Eclair, and I don't mean the pastry.

Viva Tokina 28-70!

Best regards,
 
I fall into the camp of no shoulder rig for documentary.

With Olof's body-mount handle, & an EVF, I can (just) get it up on the shoulder, but it's much easier to get to waist-level, or especially the floor, without a full rig.

I move the camera more when it's lightweight. And into tighter scenarios (crowd, car, room's corner, etc) with a compact setup. And it's quicker to build. And easier to travel with.

An IS lens helps with simple handheld work, or shut off for complex.

My preferred lens for documentary was the 14-35/2, but the 12-35 may supplant it. The Olympus has it's merits, & will stay in the kit, but the Lumix is wider, stabilized, parfocal(ly), & the focus distance feedback more accurate.

Plus it's MUCH smaller.

Bulk, & weight, are hindrances in documentary work. Not only do they restrict how the camera moves, but where. And how beat up you get in the process.

When needed I usually prefer an EasyRig to shoulder mount. They save your back, & better at a range of heights.

The real revolution is the flexibility of these new cine cameras.
 
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I keep hearing from people that tell me the AF100 is not a good documentary camera, because it can't be shoulder mounted for long periods.. I'm 68 and I shoot sometimes 6-8 hours a day with the AF on my shoulder set up as I described above. In my opinion there isn't a better camera out there for my kind of shooting - true, I do have to change lenses occasionally, but I used to change magazines a lot more often... - Here's a pic with the 12-35. This is as streamlined as it gets.
 

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Info on above - I built the base from parts I had, moving the back rod block as far forward as possible to leave room for my shoulder behind. The blocks are Red Rock and are supported on the bottom by the tripod plate, so I don't have to modify anything to go to a tripod. The grip and bracket are from my Aaton, but could be duplicated more cheaply and mounted directly off of the side plate's sturdy 1/4-20s. Because I never use heavy lenses the short base is fine, and is secured to the camera with a cheese plate that covers the entire base of the camera.

The EVF is a Cineroid, but I also have a Z-Finder Pro.. the Cineroid has red peaking, the Z-Finder Pro is better built - six of one blah blah... It is mounted off the top of the handle on a bracket I made from hardware store aluminum. I figure total cost on this (not including the Aaton stuff) is about $700. I should add that I also have a backup grip using a mountain bike grip that I made for less than $50 - but I really like the look of the Aaton.

I also have a shoulder pad that slides onto the tripod plate that has a Gold Mount for an Anton Bauer battery when I need more power. The camera sits flat on the floor, doesn't extend behind my shoulder, is extremely light and balances very well.
 
Mac, That is all very nice - especially to a noob like me. Wish I could sit down over a brew with you and talk about your filming exploits!

I have a question on lenses. For a zoom lens I've seen a few go with the fujinon el cheapo lenses with servo zooms from yesteryear, but none mentioned here. Why is that? Seems like a good thing to have for say a soccer game. I don't guess you would want to make a movie with one, and I guess you may not be making a living with one like most of you folks do, but I would like the pros and cons of getting one. Thanks
 
Jack: For a soccer game I'd use another camera.. that's exactly why I have an HPX250 (I don't shoot soccer, but sometimes motorcycles) - it has a long lens and meets broadcast standards out of the box, shoots slo-mo at 720 and it's way cheaper than a good Fujinon.. If you need slo-mo @ 1080, use the AF100 with a Canon FD zoom - there are lots out there now. Be aware of support though - if you set your camera up the way I have, you literally need to reassemble the whole thing to provide support for a long lens like that. If you have a Fujinon with a doubler already, fine, but otherwise you're looking at a lot of money for something not as crisp as the Canons. Personally I don't like or use servo-zooms (my idiosyncrasy) - I even remove the motors from broadcast lenses.

I should point out that I built my base so that it lines up to accept my Chrosziel matte box when I use primes - and I also designed it so that if I do need lens support I can move the rear rod block back about 3 inches and use stainless steel rods. With a screwdriver and an allen wrench this takes only about 2 minutes - if you're "customizing" a camera, always plan for alternatives.
 
So glad you liked City Symphony. People either love it or . . . . don't or don't get it. So thanks! Actually I used the HMC 150 for City Hall but the rest of it was shot on the dinosaur JVC100 (I think that's the number).

Anyway, I think I've taken the hmc150 it to its creative limits which is why I moved up to the Af100. It's actually been a pretty smooth transition since they are both Panasonics and have many similar controls. I love my new AF100. Haven't shot anything for a client yet but experimented a bit and I like what I'm getting.

I can be pretty thick but I don't understand the Mcbob, Macbob -- Sounds funny though but let me in on the joke. :)
 
No, nothing thick here, just an obscure joke made to something said in passing... in full context (even worse), it would be:
cathstrat said:
Mac -- Thanks so much for your post. I feel much better now. It appears hands down that the 12-35 is the way to go. .
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mcbob said:
I think Mac and I are essentially the same person (albeit ~40 years apart in age and experience). Also own, shoot, and love the 12-35
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groveChuck said:
mcbob, we'll have to rename you Macbob... :laugh:
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I like the clock doc too, and BTW, welcome to the AF100 section! Hope you enjoy the process of learning your new camera and its possibilities in your storytelling!

Best,
Chuck
 
Hi Catherine and other AF100 users, I'm having the same concern of which lens to choose for my new documentary http://vimeo.com/27573420. As you see im going to film kids so I wont have any need of a shoulder rig :). Im on super budget so far since the film is not funded, but I have now got a AF100 and a panny 20mm lens + the 14-140mm. What else zoom lens would you recommend to buy? I love the idea of buying the 12-35mm, but I think that the 35mm isn't enough for close ups in intense situations(or maybe I just should practice to get closer to the objects:) ). I would appreciate any suggestion! thanks
 
Erik Naso said:
Have to agree with David. I shoot with a HPX-370 a lot and never in auto anything. Run and gun is all about having a large focal range and that is hard to get on such a large sensor as the AF-100 and up. Might not be the camera for what your needs are or you just have to find a way to work with zoom SLR lenses and be fast at changing them.
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It's also a beast to get focus dialed in compared with true run-and-gun cameras like HPX370 or HPX250 or HPX160 or HMC150. Just because the AF100 takes a lot of lenses doesn't mean that there exists a lens/sensor combination that's as well-optimized as those purpose-build cameras and lenses.
 
The 20/1.7 & 14-140/5.8 were my first two m4/3 lenses & still in use today. With it's 10x zoom range the 14-140/5.8 is particularly useful for multicam shoots, & I may look into updating to the newly announced version.

But for documentary work the 12-35 is by far my current favorite. Overall the 35-100/2.8 is a better lens, & my second favorite m4/3, but the shorter zoom's focal length(s) appeal to me more.

The AF is a great documentary camera, especially if your traveling the world, but if you don't have a backup camera yet consider a GH. They make a powerful & compact combo.
 
Hi,

I own the 45-175 mm Lumix lens and it is a very good lens for its price. You can even use remotes for the AF100 to zoom with this lens. It does not extend while zooming and it is mostly parfocal. The only disadvantage is that the lens is not very fast and has no constant iris.
The Power OIS is also very good. I made a short video with this lens handheld and the image is fairly stable. See below.

 
The Tamron 17-50mm 2.8F constant aperture is a really nice and handy lens. I got it at the recommendation of someone else on here. Since I got it two or three months ago, I think I have only taken it off once, and that was to put the 20mm on to get close up crowd shots in a dark auditorium. I've used it to cover events and do interviews, works well for both. Get it in Nikon mount and then get either the Fotodiox or Novoflex (I think those are the two) adapter and it'll be a stepless aperture. It doesn't have an aperture dial on it, so the adapter has to have a mechanism for it.
 
Thank's for your replies! Today I actually got granted some support for the film and I will get the 12-35mm lens! So which additional lens should I go for? I suppose I need one fast zoom for the detailed shots since Im going to shoot for example a lot of hand movement from the blind kids indoors.
Bern: Yes I already have a GH2 so thank you Im feeling that im on the right way (technical-wise anyway :) ).
Gugulion: Your handheld shooting looks great, I think I will need a faster lens though, since i'm going to film a lot indoors.
BrandonT:I will check out the Tamaron 17-50, I also heard that the Sigma 18-50 is good for video?
 
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BrandonT said:
The Tamron 17-50mm 2.8F constant aperture is a really nice and handy lens. I got it at the recommendation of someone else on here. Since I got it two or three months ago, I think I have only taken it off once, and that was to put the 20mm on to get close up crowd shots in a dark auditorium. I've used it to cover events and do interviews, works well for both. Get it in Nikon mount and then get either the Fotodiox or Novoflex (I think those are the two) adapter and it'll be a stepless aperture. It doesn't have an aperture dial on it, so the adapter has to have a mechanism for it.
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Got to love the Tamron, looking forward to the speedbooster for this lens.

To the OP, it's always good to have a classic fast 50mm in the bag, I like using the Olympus OM 50mm 1.4
 
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