AF100 external recorder - Ninja 2 or Samurai?

groveChuck said:
Oops- Sony A-cam? :grin:
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Ha!

I just shot a indie feature and left one FS100 as an Acam, goes on my shoulder perfectly, but mainly lived on a head, and I have the other (Bcam) rigged for a glidecam with the recorder, 7" mon and batt on the sled at the bottom for counter weight... hence the Acam thang, the piccie shows the lightweight/elegant rearplate from WestSide - cableage is mainly on the assist side of the camera.. it comes a bit closer to an SR's weight and ballance, depending on the glass (that Zeiss 16-35/2.8 is a bit on the heavy side)

d
 
Ed Kishel said:
that's my thought as well- is it an improvement worth $1500 for a Samurai? The BM Hyperdeck however... probably, since properly outfitted it's only 1/3 the cost. If at the end of the day- if I have to pixel-peep to see the difference, it's not worth. The money should go towards a better light kit.

If only the Samurai could just do 1:1 punch in for focusing- then I could justify it.
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FYI £1500 is $2400 in dollars for the Samurai and SSDs!
 
bgundu said:
This is the same setup for tripod. It balances very well. As long as you have a sliding plate or sliding dove plate. I've done away with shoulder mounts. This was the fastest setup from tripod to shoulder. I have a Velcro shoulder pad that quickly attaches.
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Yeah I noticed that, looks really natural for shoulder work!
 
John B. said:
Since we're obviously still beating this "mine's the best" horse, DV Magazine rated the Atomos Ninja2 four-and-a-half stars and gave it their Excellence Award. The Shuttle, just reviewed in the January issue, received three stars.

Here are links to the two reviews:

http://tinyurl.com/asfdva8

http://tinyurl.com/azgkads
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Come on John, no one is beating any horses, no horses were hurtvin thevmaking of this thread, just more have come to tye conversation. We fully established plus and minuses for everything here, only a few posts back i praised the Samurai on Bobs Red and I was just correcting someone on the Samurai being $1500 because they had read my pricing in dollars instead of in pounds which puts the Samurai at $2400 with SSDs based on UK pricing. In todays market a £1500 device is worth debating over when its going to be attached to a £2500 camera, Bobs Red less so as he is in a different market to us.

I'm really not concerned with what a magazine reviewer says, I prefer to hear opinion from actual owners who have swallowed the cost themselves and besides, comparing the £750 Ninja 2, a HDMI only device with no triggers or 24psf support but features a screen to the £225 HDMI and SDI shuttle which has triggers, 24psf and uncompressed but doesn't feature a screen is a little pointless, they are very different units that have different short commings and only become comparable late 2012. Even while i started beating this here horse i had the sense to only compare the Shuttle to the Samurai from a fully kitted point of view with power and monitoring factored in to make it an even comparison, to be fair a lot of people have monitors and a lot have v-locks so i could just say the shuttle is the same as the atomos but only costs £225 which would be a stupid statement to make and wouldn't benefit anyone coming here to help make a decision.

Comparing the Ninja 1, 2 or the Samurai makes more sense to me but maybe compare it to the Pix at £1650 - http://www.3dbroadcastsales.com/products/Sound-Devices-PIX-220-HDMI-Portable-Video-Recorder.html or Gemini recorder at £6000 http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/index.php?t=product/convergent_gemini-444 - as they have the same feature set as the Atomos products?
 
No need to overreact.

The magazine was not comparing the Ninja 2 with the Shuttle. Each was a separate review, evaluated on its own merits. One got three stars and the other received four-and-a-half stars and an "Excellence Award." The Ninja 2 article applies in the sense that the Samurai is basically a Ninja 2 with more features.

I don't think anyone should buy something simply on the strength of one voice, be it a magazine review, or another user's zealousness. New buyers should do their research, listen to many voices, consider their own needs and budget, then make a decision.

The articles I pointed to are just another voice. In that context it seems totally pertinent to this discussion.
 
John B. said:
No need to overreact.

The magazine was not comparing the Ninja 2 with the Shuttle. Each was a separate review, evaluated on its own merits. One got three stars and the other received four-and-a-half stars and an "Excellence Award." The Ninja 2 article applies in the sense that the Samurai is basically a Ninja 2 with more features.

I don't think anyone should buy something simply on the strength of one voice, be it a magazine review, or another user's zealousness. New buyers should do their research, listen to many voices, consider their own needs and budget, then make a decision.

The articles I pointed to are just another voice. In that context it seems totally pertinent to this discussion.
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Whatever dude, its getting boring going around in circles here, call me what you like, i really couldn't give a sh@t.

A magazines excellence award is like a smiley face stamp from a teacher, I'm not sure why you even brought it up with my quote, or another post about about new buyers needs, I think we covered that fully to the point of distraction, the thread has moved on. The ninja is HDMI, the Samurai SDI, both cost more than the shuttle by a fair margin and don't cover all the bases.

All record to the same bloody codec or less quality (atomos) or more (shuttle). You don't get a screen on the shuttle and its designed to fit into a fully rigged camera over someone starting from scratch but that's ok as they charge very little for it. The Atomos costs what they do despite you possibly not needing anything but the record function, if that's what you want then all the best to you, blow the cash on it.

At least I explain and back up my post, not just keep on with little digs and name calling.

This forum sometimes :/
 
XSVpro said:
Whatever dude, its getting boring going around in circles here, call me what you like, i really couldn't give a sh@t.

A magazines excellence award is like a smiley face stamp from a teacher, I'm not sure why you even brought it up with my quote, or another post about about new buyers needs, I think we covered that fully to the point of distraction, the thread has moved on. The ninja is HDMI, the Samurai SDI, both cost more than the shuttle by a fair margin and don't cover all the bases.

All record to the same bloody codec or less quality (atomos) or more (shuttle). You don't get a screen on the shuttle and its designed to fit into a fully rigged camera over someone starting from scratch but that's ok as they charge very little for it. The Atomos costs what they do despite you possibly not needing anything but the record function, if that's what you want then all the best to you, blow the cash on it.

At least I explain and back up my post, not just keep on with little digs and name calling.

This forum sometimes :/
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Wow, I'm not sure what your problem is but I think your passion is clouding your perception.

Just because I don't agree that the Shuttle is the only logical choice is no reason for you to turn nasty.

Show me where I called you a name and I'll take it back.
 
Jeez John, I didn't want to get involved but got to say I too have picked up on digs you keep sending XSV's way. He's just been providing bundles of helpful information for me and this thread, but then every other post is a subtle dig at him being a zealot as if he's polluting our minds by only saying there is only one true recorder- the shuttle! There has been a lot of fair and interesting user analysis of the many different types of recorders on here, shuttles, ninja, samurai etc, from people who own them, and no one (XSV included) has really tried to forcibly champion their own, they've just been pointing out different positives and negatives, all of which I have been looking at in addition to my own independent research. So no reason to think people are "obviously still beating this "mine's the best" horse" all we have here is just helpful friendly advice. So lets all be cool :)
 
John B. said:
Wow, I'm not sure what your problem is but I think your passion is clouding your perception.

Just because I don't agree that the Shuttle is the only logical choice is no reason for you to turn nasty.

Show me where I called you a name and I'll take it back.
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Take your own advice John
 
With the Samurai, I've had good success with these drives:

Crucial M4 128GB
Crucial M4 256GB

I have four of the 256GB M4s and one of the 128s and have had no issues with them. They are really fast, and they don't cost much more than some of the slower SSDs. If you watch Amazon closely, the prices on the 256GB version of the M4 sometimes will dip for a day or so, then go back up to about $190-$200.

At the highest quality (ProRes HQ or DNxHD 220/220X), a 256GB drive will capture a little over three hours worth of footage if you're using the "3:2 pulldown 1080P23.98" mode. Just over three hours is the record time you get with a 32GB SD in the AF100, so this works out nicely. At ProRes 422 you get even longer record times.

If you use the 3:2 pulldown mode, when you bring the unit up, you'll need to pan the camera slowly for a moment, or (wave your hand in front of the lens slowly) in order for the Samurai to Auto Detect the cadence of the 3:2 pull-down that it is being fed.

Once you have all of the proper Samurai settings selected, record will trigger whenever the AF100 goes into record (or playback, since it's again sending out the same HD-SDI stream). Since an external recorder doesn't record slo-mo, a work-around is to record the shot at the over-crank speed, then play it back from the AF100. On the Samurai, you will then have the original standard speed recording followed by a slo-mo version, as the Samurai will have recorded the slo-mo SDI stream as played back via the AF100.

NOTE: The "Rolling Timecode Record Trigger" has a toggle that needs to be in the correct mode in order for the Samurai to trigger properly. You also need to have selected the proper camera trigger in the menu.

The unit's one weak link is the use of mini-SDI connectors. Flexed too much, the supplied adapter cables can break at the small connector. I recommend having extras on hand just in case. They're something like $40 for two of them. Atomos now also offers them in a right angle version. Caddies are real inexpensive, About $30 for a pack of five.
 
It came across the other way around from my side of the equation. Funny how perspectives vary. Perhaps I misread all the times he would counter something I said about the Samurai or totally dismiss the linked magazine's reviews, or the incessant drumbeat of the price differences.

I apologize for any "digs" toward XSV (including the aforementioned if you consider it a "dig").

I still think he was off-target with an accusation that I called him names. I certainly take them back if I did.

Enough... Let's be done with it! There are images to be captured -- each on our preferred device. <g>
 
I wil just add a little Samurai tip to the other tips supplied by John B

Do your playback / confidence previews from the Samurai while connected and set up with the camera,.

If you playback from the camera SD card when the trigger is on ...It will record the playback and give you a new clip.

Of course you can turn the trigger off but its easy to not remeber to turn it back on and subsequrently...not record to the Samurai.

The above advice depends on how you have set up your "triggering"
 
Thanks for the tips guys I'll be sure to practise a hell of a lot with it! I'll check out those ssd's too. I'm afraid I don't really know much about this 3:2 pull down system though, lost me there :/ I usually shoot 1080p 25f, that'll be fine to check back over the samurai right, it'll still be progressive etc like it would on the sd cards?
 
Should be.

Basically the AF100 is not outputting a progressive signal at 1080p, it is interlaced (1080 50i/60i) and has to go through a process to put the interlaced fields back together so that 50i is back to being 25p or 60i is back to 29.97 or 23.98p. If you use 24psf you get a cleaner result for 24p. Barry has a better way of explaining this but you would better off really learning the subject.
 
Oh i didnt know that, so when I watch my small hd when im filming at 1080p, its not really 1080 ? :S I'm going to have to have a serious read up about it.
 
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