AF100 external recorder - Ninja 2 or Samurai?

Kindredmachine

Kindredmachine

Well-known member
I’m picking up an external recorder for the AF100 and have been checking out the Atomos Ninja 2 and the Samurai. They seem virtually identical except that the Samurai has HD-SDI but LESS recording options that the Ninja 2... huh? According to B&H, the Samurai has only ProRes options (ProRes HQ, ProRes 422 and ProResLT) whereas the Ninja 2 has all of the PreRes options + DNxHD options.

Also (I know this doesn’t apply to the AF100) but the Ninja 2 states it’s a 10-bit recorder even though it’s HDMI only with an available SDI>HDMI converter… do cameras like the FS100 actually send out a 10-bit signal via HDMI or would one be required to use the SDI converter?

Ninja 2 HDMI ($995)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/858661-REG/ATOMOS_ATOMNJA002_Ninja_2.html

Samurai HD-SDI ($1,600)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/767073-REG/ATOMOS_ATOMSAM001_Samurai_HD_SDI_Hard_Disk.html

UPDATE = I see on the Atomos website that in august you can upgrade the Samurai to include the Avid codecs...
 
Last edited:
as i understand u ll not get 10bit out of AF100 at all, as its just 8bit 4:2:0 cam..... same for FS100, c300, FS700 (currently, but later when RAW activated u ll get 12 bit)

what u ll get is 4:2:2 with high bit rate!

before the samurai had a better screen - but after the nunja 2 upgrade i am not sure.....
 
For any job high-priority enough to require external recording, I would avoid risking it on HDMI connections.
 
I considered both then went with this (and have no regrets, period): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/844597-REG/Blackmagic_Design_HyperDeck_Shuttle_2_and.html
This exact OWC SSD is not on list but works perfectly as the 240GB drive that is, does . . .
Make sure you buy the right cable and do any firmware updates.
The onboard battery is sufficient for short jobs . . . I just back it with a Tekeon 3450 and can go all day (or as long as I have enough storage for).
 
Kindredmachine said:
the Ninja 2 states it’s a 10-bit recorder
Click to expand...
It is, and so is the Samurai, and the Shuttle, and the PIX, and the Ki Pro & Mini, and basically all the external recorders (except for the NanoFlash, it's 8-bit only).

Problem is, just about all the cameras you'd want to use with these recorders, are 8-bit output only. As Anatusa said, the AF100, FS100, FS700, and C300 are all 8-bit output only. They all output 4:2:2 8-bit on their SDI and HDMI ports.
 
Put another way ...you buy an external recorder to get extra data speed (mbps) in a different codec... and an extra 2 bits.

The extra 2 bits cost you an extra 1600 bit$
 
Thanks everyone, I know the AF100 and most other cams are only 8-bit but I wasn't aware that any camera did or would have a 10-bit 1080p signal go out through the HDMI. I was curious about this in regards to future use on other cameras (not the AF100), for example, recording from a Scarlet. Either way though, I'm sticking with SDI.

In regards to editing with CS6 on a PC, is there any advantage to recording with DNxHD over ProRes or vice versa?
 
dregenthal said:
I considered both then went with this (and have no regrets, period): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/844597-REG/Blackmagic_Design_HyperDeck_Shuttle_2_and.html
This exact OWC SSD is not on list but works perfectly as the 240GB drive that is, does . . .
Make sure you buy the right cable and do any firmware updates.
The onboard battery is sufficient for short jobs . . . I just back it with a Tekeon 3450 and can go all day (or as long as I have enough storage for).
Click to expand...

Does it have live HD-SDI passthrough so I can actually see the signal going through on another field monitor while recording?
 
In regards to editing with CS6 on a PC, is there any advantage to recording with DNxHD over ProRes or vice versa?
Click to expand...

I dont know ...but I would consider both those to be equal.

What I do though is dual record (internal sd and Samurai) and edit the avchd in Premiere Pro. I then conform via EDL and use the Prores HQ files in finishing stages of the post production.
 
Shooter said:
Put another way ...you buy an external recorder to get extra data speed (mbps) in a different codec... and an extra 2 bits.

The extra 2 bits cost you an extra 1600 bit$
Click to expand...

Barry just told that u ll not get any extra 2 bits!?...
 
Kindredmachine said:
Thanks everyone, I know the AF100 and most other cams are only 8-bit but I wasn't aware that any camera did or would have a 10-bit 1080p signal go out through the HDMI. I was curious about this in regards to future use on other cameras (not the AF100), for example, recording from a Scarlet. Either way though, I'm sticking with SDI.

In regards to editing with CS6 on a PC, is there any advantage to recording with DNxHD over ProRes or vice versa?
Click to expand...

Why would u need 10 bit for Scarlet?? Scarlet has already its own very good codec - 16-bit RAW Processing : Compression choices of 18:1 to 3:1. so why bother with 10bit if u get 16bit?
 
anatusa said:
Why would u need 10 bit for Scarlet?? Scarlet has already its own very good codec - 16-bit RAW Processing : Compression choices of 18:1 to 3:1. so why bother with 10bit if u get 16bit?
Click to expand...

People might have done it in order to film longer when taking a 4k signal and saving to 2k on the fly or possibly for those just shooting for web video? They might want the field of view from shooting in 4k but not need huge 4k files as well... who knows. but my question was more geared towards if HDMI actually carries the same 10-bit signal as HD-SDI (on 10-bit cameras of course, not the AF100) which I didn't think it did. Some people have complained that even with the AF100, HDMI doesn't carry the flags that SDI does.
 
Yes, (all outputs are available while recording or playing back).
Check out blackmagic-design.com support pages for the full skinny . . .
 
How short is "short projects" though for the blackmagic? I think i read somewhere that a 120gb ssd on it can only record like 40 minutes of footage or something in quicktime files? Is this true?
 
taras4444 said:
How short is "short projects" though for the blackmagic? I think i read somewhere that a 120gb ssd on it can only record like 40 minutes of footage or something in quicktime files? Is this true?
Click to expand...

Don;t have the exact times in front of me but you don't get long recording time. Uncompressed, you're looking at about 12.5 minutes from a 128GB drive and you have to use SSD. With samurai, you can record to ProRes and use 2.5" HDD OR SSD with much longer record times.
 
One has to consider what purpose they might have to record uncompressed in the first place . . . commercial green screen might be one?
I can't imagine, for my purposes, shooting exclusively in uncompressed . . .
There's also the issue of the kind of horsepower you'd need to edit out anything long form.

I've actually forgotten what the rate is for ProRes or DNxHD but (and probably not completely current) from the FAQs on BM's website: "A 128 GB SSD will allow you to capture about 12.5 minutes in HD while a 512 GB SSD will provide about 50 minutes of uncompressed HD video capture. If you're only capturing SD video, then the recording time is generally 4 times of what you can get compared to capturing HD video." If you'll figure about a gigabyte a minute (compressed HD) you'll be in the ball park.

You're not going to record uncompressed to anything other than SSD's . . . and particular ones at that. But then again, for me, I wanted an inexpensive reliable solution 4-2-2 capable . . . I'm not going backwards from solid state to spinning hard drives. Additionally, I wouldn't want to have to purchase SSD for uncompressed then have spinning HD's for longer/more record time. I bought two 120's and that gives me all I need (presently anyway).

I've never seen the utility in edit direct from the SSD's but I did score one of these to format the SSD's and transfer my files: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...y_NWTFWU3ES2HDK_Voyager_Q_Quad_Interface.html

The Shuttle2 may not be for everyone but, for me, it just plain works--no headaches, no regrets. I didn't need another screen that wasn't up to speed and the price made it a no-brainer (for me).
 
i think i am in the same pants - i want 4:2:2, but i dont need huge Files....... in fact i dont want anything larger then 50-80mbps..., and unfortunately the only unit that can offer it is Nanoflesh, but it also kind of VERY expansive toy around 1800 - 2000$ + accessories + CF cards. ninja or samurai looks kind of much cheaper solution especially as u get 10bit and extra monitor - and i would buy it today, but they dont have the codec i want:crybaby:

nanoflash has a perfect design - talking about size and weight, codec i want(4:2:2 & 50-220mbps), low power, but kind of too expansive for me ....
http://www.convergent-design.com/Products/nanoFlash.aspx

keep in mind nanoflash is 8bit only, if i understand it right.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top