AF100 / AF101 - initial report

exttreem said:
:furious3: I want this Camera HACKED!

And I don't want any excuses.
Are you listening Tester? :angry:
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Don't force him Buddy...

Otherwise, this Cam will accidently start giving you Uncompressed-12bit-RAW.
It will be the Biggest loss of Panny(Vari).

And off course the RED and SI would go to Dust Bin...?

mikkowilson said:
Or they could just offer you a job...
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By getting Job in Panasonic he will be working like :Drogar-SunGlass(DBG Panasonic.
I think its Better for us to have him ' Out of ' Panasonic.
Am I right Vitaliy?
 
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Retrospective said:
Hey Barry, I guess you'll be working on the AF100 book so it will be released at the same time? ;)
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Last year when I asked Barry for Tutorial DVD on GH1, he said:
Barry_Green said:
After playing with it at NAB, I made two decisions:
1) I will get one of these
2) I will do a book and maybe a DVD on this.

This thing is going to be huge. I'm very encouraged by Kholi's experimentation.
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But then, People started getting Negetive on GH1. Criticizing it for Low Bitrate, not so good lens, the Jello, the aliasing, No Live HDMI, no Good audio, etc.

And then latter on, it just got HACKED :Drogar-Angry(DBG):? Making more and more topics for Barry to include in Book? That's Crazy...
So, the Book never came out.

I hope this will never happen to AF100, and Barry will try his Best for this one.
But never expect the Book before release of Camera like me, that's silly. Remember when HMC got its book?
 
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I think that at this point in time you should just wait till it comes out. Yes the hack did improve the performance of the GH1, but that would be fairly simple. Barry made mention during the IBC that he felt that the performance of the AF100 was close if not better than the hack's performance. So just save your energy about wishing and hoping for a hack, it just might not need it.

For a tutorial on working with AVCHD please see our website www.panasonic.com/avccam, there is a white paper on the workflow with the NLE of choice.

Best,

Jan
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
I think that at this point in time you should just wait till it comes out. Yes the hack did improve the performance of the GH1, but that would be fairly simple. Barry made mention during the IBC that he felt that the performance of the AF100 was close if not better than the hack's performance. So just save your energy about wishing and hoping for a hack, it just might not need it.
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Jan,

I'm happy to see you here listening to all the comments. I hope the camera will be good enough that we won't need a hack, but just to be fair, could you please not "lock" the camera to prevent it from being hacked. If someone does hack the camera, then just think of it as customer feedback on possible future improvements.
 
Sumfun said:
Jan,

I'm happy to see you here listening to all the comments. I hope the camera will be good enough that we won't need a hack, but just to be fair, could you please not "lock" the camera to prevent it from being hacked. If someone does hack the camera, then just think of it as customer feedback on possible future improvements.
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I am sorry but that will probably not be likely. It would be unheard of that you would be able to hack our cameras, has never been done on the professional cameras, short of the frame rate hack on the HVX200 which was harmless enough and didn't change anything inside of the camera. A codec hack has never happened. Don't see that it would be possible.

If you want a higher bit rate, then use an external device that does that.

Best,

Jan
 
Why not allow user selectable bitrates (with 24mbit as default)? Then it is up to us to get the right setting and fastest SD cards, without fear of breaking the camera by using a hack.

I'm no engineer, but it seems simple. Maybe cap it at 80mbit.
 
Jan, thanks so much for paying attention and being such a helping hand with answering our questions. There are so many threads I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but it's been a hot issue since Barry did his small write up about it. I know it's confirmed in the model now that it will be a 8 bit sdi, but in the finished model is there any possible chance that it will be a 10 bit sdi?

People are itching to use external devices like you've just said, but bitrate is only part of the equation, bit depth is incredibly important, especially with higher end work flows. The color grade alone benefits heap loads. In the European demo video that's online right now it even advertises the panasonic external record that records 10 bit intra. There is a benefit in recording 10 bit out of a 8 bit signal, but not as much of a benefit of actually really getting all that bit depth. If there is any say from you in on it, and if it's within the realm of reasoning for this product, I hope someone up the pipeline will listen. Thanks.
 
If the codec performance of the AF-100 is on par or even slightly better than the HMC cameras, I don't really see a need for the hack.

Would it be nice? Maybe. But I've never seen anything in the raw footage from the HMC cameras that left me "wanting" so to speak.

The GH1 needed the hack. The AF-100 almost certainly will not.
 
D10S said:
How will the AVCHD codec change the workflow compared to DVCPRO HD? It will, I assume, eliminate the P2CM and Raylight programs now needed to "injest" the footage as was needed for P2.
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Not so long as you're using an Apple NLE. Apple will require that for any file that isn't a native quicktime file.

Of course, if you use practically any other NLE on the market, you can just drag the files straight from the card into the timeline.

With the SDHC and SDXC cards will we be going back to copying files without a program in between?
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On other NLEs, yes. On Apple, no. Apple prevents any modern files other than Quicktime files from working directly.
 
stockfuel said:
Why not allow user selectable bitrates (with 24mbit as default)? Then it is up to us to get the right setting and fastest SD cards, without fear of breaking the camera by using a hack.

I'm no engineer, but it seems simple. Maybe cap it at 80mbit.
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As Jan said, the Hack is not Possible, and never was in Pro range.

About the Bitrate, Panny always have some fixed 'Strategies' for all Cams and even Codecs, which they don't like to change for at least few years, and AVCCAM has no exception.
 
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I think the bigger question right now isn't whether or not the hack is possible, but if it's even necessary. And that's a question we'll only be able to answer when we can see some raw footage from the camera, put through the paces by someone who really knows what to do with it.


(Waits patiently for Jan to send him the AF-100 for testing. :D)
 
Barry_Green said:
Not so long as you're using an Apple NLE. Apple will require that for any file that isn't a native quicktime file.

Of course, if you use practically any other NLE on the market, you can just drag the files straight from the card into the timeline.


On other NLEs, yes. On Apple, no. Apple prevents any modern files other than Quicktime files from working directly.
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So on a Mac you'll have to do the same thing as with P2 and use log and transfer. What is the best way to get the files into the computer from the card? I mean using finder to drop and drag is never recommended. I don't want to use log and transfer directly from the card, or do I?
 
Stephen Mick said:
If the codec performance of the AF-100 is on par or even slightly better than the HMC cameras, I don't really see a need for the hack.

Would it be nice? Maybe. But I've never seen anything in the raw footage from the HMC cameras that left me "wanting" so to speak.

The GH1 needed the hack. The AF-100 almost certainly will not.
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I agree with Stephen here. We will all just have to see if it works for you, I think an awful lot of people short change mentally the AVCCAM PH mode without really giving it a shot. I have seen where it actually out performs DVCPRO HD on some content. Just wait till it delivers and try it for yourself.

Best,

jan
 
drag and dropping the "private" folder off the SD card is fine.

insert card using card reader
create folder that will be your "reel name"(for archiving)
drop private folder off of card into the new folder
log and transfer with the new folder(so the name of folder is the reel name)
ingest footage
complete edit
trash capture scratch or archive it, i trash it
archive project file, the reel folder and any other goodies

if you ever need to revisit that edit just load up that folder and fcp can batch capture whats needed from that reel folder.
 
D10S said:
So on a Mac you'll have to do the same thing as with P2 and use log and transfer. What is the best way to get the files into the computer from the card? I mean using finder to drop and drag is never recommended. I don't want to use log and transfer directly from the card, or do I?
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Please follow the guideline posted in the FCP white paper on the www.panasonic.com/AVCCAM site.
 
I think the avchd may perform far beyond the hmc cameras due to the likelihood that the AF100
will be so much less noisy, but it will always have that long GOP low bit rate semi-uncertainty attached to it when faced with a dynamic/tough scene to shoot.

8-bit SDI is still far from a deal breaker in my world. In fact, I think it's going to be amazing to use AVCHD 24 mbs as a really nice safety backup for future shoots with the nano or ki pro mini.
 
Same day edits may be best achieved with native support for AVCHD files.

AVCHD is computational intensive, however, so not just any PC or Mac for that matter will provide a pleasant editing experience using AVCHD native files.

I prefer to work with pro res using a transcode with a Mac.

Barry and others prefer to work natively.

To each their own on this issue.
 
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